Rolleiflex 2.8 - Modded with Hasselblad WLF

[jspillane]

So, despite my best attempts to resist, I ended up picking up a very well priced Rolleiflex 2.8D yesterday. Still testing but everything seems to be in good working order. The low price was for 2 reasons:

1) Coating damage to the front of the taking lens (Going to do some tests but I think I can live with this. Plan to pick-up a hood anyway).
2) The original WLF was removed at some point and replaced with a Hasselblad late-style WLF.

I have no real qualms with either of these issues as I intend to use it as a travel camera when I don't want to haul an SLR system, not a showpiece (I've have pristine Rolleiflexes in the past and found that I don't tend to take them out for fear of scuffing them up, which is kind of a waste). That being said, I wouldn't mind the Hasselblad WLF for my Hasselblad set-up, and may start shopping around for a replacement older style Rolleiflex finder.

Does anybody have experience with a mod of this kind? The Hasselblad finder sits inside the edges of the Rolleiflex and feels quite secure, but I do not see any screws. My guess is that the screws holding in the top edges of the camera are also keeping it secure- I don't particularly want to remove it until I am sure I'll be able to put another WLF on the camera. Furthermore, are there any incompatibilities between different old (pre-user removable finder) Rolleiflex finders and models? I suspect that any of the earlier models (including Automats and the earlier Rolleicords) should fit correctly, but I haven't found a great discussion of the topic.

Part of me is tempted just to leave the Hasselblad WLF on the camera, as I do prefer the operation to the old Rollei finders. It does look a little odd, though...

Any thoughts / opinions on the best course of action?

 

[TheFlyingCamera]

Frankly so long as it stays attached, and it doesn't significantly intrude on the ground glass, I wouldn't worry about it. The original Rollei hoods are very leaky to light and make it more difficult to focus. While it may look like a Frankencamera, if it works, and you got a good price on it, just use it in good health. Because it looks like a cobbled-together apparatus, it's probably an even better travel camera as it will be less appealing to thieves.

 

[mitrajoon]

How about a photo of the Frakencamera?

 

[snapguy]

whatever

Whatever works is A-OK. Great camera. Lucky dood.

 

[Trask]

A German company makes an adapter that allows the use of Hasselblad finders on Rollei TLRs with removable finder -- not sure if yours is like that or not. I have one of these adapters and it works very well. Perhaps what you're looking at is one of these adapters mounted on your Rollei? As noted, a photo would help.

 

[gone]

You must have the Xenotar lens on yours? I had one w/ very serious coating issues. Took great pics, so it didn't matter. As for the hood, if it ain't broke...

 

[bdial]

I would miss the ability to use a sports finder. But, aside from that, if it works, and it suits you, why not?

 

[Dan Daniel]

I've done something very similar- installed a Hasselblad NC-2 prism on a Rolleiflex. I have one on a 2.8C right now, similar hood dedsign as the 2.8D. I took a broken Rolleiflex hood and removed all of the moving parts, getting it down to just the frame that screws to the camera body with the 4 screws along the outside.

The NC-2 prism slides right in- AFTER you remove the mounting plate. I've also modiifed a Hasselblad chimney finder to a Rolleiflex, and had to grind away the mounting plate area which is an integrated flange on the chimney finder, not a removeable plate as on the NC-2.

Anyway, before youu think that you can just pull the WLF off of the Rollei and use it on a Hasselblad, make some measurements. There is a good chance that there is no mounting plate on the Hasselblad WLF.

EDIT: Forgot to discuss using various Rolleiflex finders on various models: they are not completely interchangeable. I know that there is a difference between a 2.8C finder and a 2.8A finder. And a 2.8C and a 3.5E. I can't remember if the 2.8C and MX-EVS are the same.

The differences come primarily in the front area. Because of the changes in the name plate area (inlcluding adding the meter element in the E) don't assume that focus hoods can be swapped. Take measurements. I seem to remember that the back of the hood and position of the screw holes in relation to the back is constant, but even this should be checked out.

 

[dpurdy]

You must have the Xenotar lens on yours? I had one w/ very serious coating issues. Took great pics, so it didn't matter. As for the hood, if it ain't broke...

This is false information. Actually it is the Planar with the softer coating.
Dennis

 

[Chris Ross Leong]

I've done something very similar- installed a Hasselblad NC-2 prism on a Rolleiflex. I have one on a 2.8C right now, similar hood dedsign as the 2.8D. I took a broken Rolleiflex hood and removed all of the moving parts, getting it down to just the frame that screws to the camera body with the 4 screws along the outside.

The NC-2 prism slides right in- AFTER you remove the mounting plate. I've also modiifed a Hasselblad chimney finder to a Rolleiflex, and had to grind away the mounting plate area which is an integrated flange on the chimney finder, not a removeable plate as on the NC-2...

Dan, hello!
Contemplating a 2.8E mod to take a Hassy chimney finder and would like some clarification about your post. I know it's much later on but what can I say? Rolleis still rule!

a) "I took a broken Rolleiflex hood and removed all of the moving parts, getting it down to just the frame that screws to the camera body..." by this I take it you mean the older, non-removable type of waist level finder, rather than one off a 2.8F, for instance? So in that case, how were you able to buy an older WLF without buying an entire camera, just for its WLF? Or did you do that?

b) "The NC-2 prism slides right in - AFTER you remove the mounting plate." I take it that the mounting plate you mention is the NC-2's mounting plate, right? How is it secured after it slides right in?

c) Same question about the Hassy chimney finder - how does it stay on, since the flange that's usually holding the finder to the body has now been ground away?

Sorry to seem a little dense, but without having these pieces actually in front of me, it's a little difficult to see how the Hassy parts would just slide in and stay put, so to speak...

Thanks!

Best
Chris

 

[subsole]

http://www.baierfoto.de/tlr_engl.html

 

[Chris Ross Leong]

Hey Bundes, thanks for your reply, but what I believe I'm talking about here is not the Baierfoto adaptor for the 2.8E3 or later, but a custom adaptor for those Rolleis that DO NOT have a removable viewfinder system. I've already written to Rolf-Dieter at Baierfoto about this very subject.

As you can tell, if such an adaptor were to exist, it would breathe a new lease of life into the older TLRs, in a sense.

Rollei itself apparently published instructions at one stage on how to upgrade its non-removable bodies to take the new, interchangeable WLF/prisms. I'd sure like to get my hands on a copy of those instructions!

Especially with us older folk, these newer prisms and WLFs offer higher magnifications and variable diopter corrections, which is a game changer with respect to the older, non-interchangeable TLRs.

Of course, with the newer (2.8E3 and 3.5E3, 2.8/3.5F and onwards) TLR models that DO take the interchangeable viewfinders, the Baierfoto adaptor makes sense to be able to use Hasselblad/Kiev/clone tops on Rollei bottoms.

So the obvious answer to those people who do not already own older bodies that they are not willing to part with (mine has significant sentimental value as well as being pristine) is to buy or swap to new. At a huge cost increase. However, that's not really the discussion on this thread, don't you agree?


Hope you understand.

 

[apoglass]

The Rolleiflex 2.8E2 works nicely with the Baierfoto adaptor and a Hasselblad prism.

Believe that you intended to say "the Baierfoto adaptor for the 2.8E2 or later." The interchangeable finders actually started with the E2 model; not just E3.

 

[Chris Ross Leong]

Quite right, my mistake, all the Rollei TLRs with removable finders started with the E2, not the E3.

 

[Fixcinater]

I have a 2.8E (fairly early in the run, I believe) with no WLF and a Hassy WLF that came in a job lot of parts. I've been slowly trying to figure out how to meld the two until I can find just a Rollei finder or machine up an adapter for a prism/rigid WLF.

Not sure how someone would have screwed the WLF directly to the Rollei top...any holes drilled in the WLF?

 

[Chris Ross Leong]

Hey, Fix!
Interesting. My 2.8E's WLF has the ground glass in it. When I undo the four screws holding the WLF in, and detach it, the GG goes with the WLF and doesn't stay behind.

That's the main structural difference I can see between that and my 2.8F - the ground glass is attached to the body in the F and to the WLF in the E. Same goes for the Hasselblads and most of the later cameras with detachable finders - it's just the finders that come off, not the GGs.

So if your 2.8E came with no WLF, then it has no GG either, correct?

In that case, you'd have to get an old style WLF with the GG and the four screws in it, then do what one of the previous posters in this thread mentioned - take the actual flip-up parts off the old WLF, having it hold just the GG in it, be attached to the body, and provide some kind of flange or mount to which to mate the Hasselblad or later Rollei finders, somehow.

But I don't see a way around having an original old style WLF and GG because without the WLF (and the GG attached to it) you can't focus the camera except by using the focus scale.

 

[Fixcinater]

Correct, I have no way of mounting the GG unless I machine something up, or somehow use the stamped bracket that the moving parallax bars mount to.

I tried mounting up the GG/WLF pieces from a Va Rolleicord, the mounting screw locations are not even close, nor are the Yashica TLR WLFs I had around the house.

 

[Chris Ross Leong]

Yeah, the thing is that the height at which the GG is mounted is super-critical for the sharp focusing of the camera, so if one doesn't have use a factory WLF (or the bottom part of it at least), then really one is looking at a 3D print of one, or a machined version that's as precisely settable/adjustable/shimmable.
Which is why I wrote to someone like Rolf-Dieter Baier, who has the shop and the know-how to put just such a mount together for the rest of us.
Otherwise it's a matter of buying a genuine older model WLF, mounting the GG in it, and stripping away the rest of it, as discussed above.

 

[Down Under]

At the risk of repeating what other good folk have already written in one form or another, here are my thoughts...

The 2.8E did not have a removable WLF, so the Baier adapter won't fit it. I know someone who tried this. The Baier adapters are good pieces of work but best suited for the newer Rolleis. The illustrations on the Baier web site show the two clamps that hold the removable WLFs or prism on the camera. The 2.8E doesn't have these clamps.

Rollei did provide an early (1950s) prism finder that could be bolted on to older Rolleis, but this item is now scarcer than the proverbial hens' teeth. Good luck to you in finding it. I had one in the 1980s, lucky me! but I sold it for a small mint to someone who wanted it more than I did. I had a 2.8E and used it for many years until it literally fell apart from old age, as I myself seem to be doing now (!). Anyway, I sold it last year for $450 to someone keen on restoring it and soon after acquired a usable 3.5E2 with a small amount of separation in the Planar taking lens, which to date has had no effect at all on my images, and is the best $250 I have ever spent. One can still find bargains in Rolleis, with luck.

Manfred Schmit (Google him for his US web site) may have something for you. He has been around for ages and often has Rollei parts not otherwise found elsewhere. If no prism, maybe he has an original WLF and the screws (don't forget to get the screws!) for the 2.8E.

As I see it, the Hasselblad WLF on a Rollei TLR is a waste of an otherwise good finder. If you want to adapt something by Hasselblad to your Rollei, go for the chimney finder, which makes focusing so much easier.

Personally, I reckon you are just pushing you know what uphill on all this. Why waste valuable time trying to customise a 1950s TLR when you could be out shooting with it? Buy a usable WLF from someone who has it as a spare part (unfortunately, you can expect to pay good money for it) and then carefully install it on your Rollei. Beware if cleaning the ground glass screens, they are very fragile and easily damaged. Assuming then that everything else is working OK on the your 2.8, you will then have a camera for life.

 

[Chris Ross Leong]

Oz, I think you hit several nails on the head. Mine is the chimney finder.

I have a very useable 2.8E with WLF. I never use it because it can't take the chimney finder or prism with variable diopter and my eyes just aren't what they used to be.
So for me this adaptation is critical to get my 2.8E back off the shelf.

The other is that IMHO shooting 120 when I already have an H3i is already pushing you know what uphill on all this.
It's why I still have a Crown Graphic and a Sinar P as well. And a Leica M2 when I run an M9 and D810 for my day job.

Why run film at all?
I do it mostly because it isn't digital easy shooting.

Best
C

 

[Fixcinater]

I just found this here at APUG: (there was a url link here which no longer exists)

 

[Chris Ross Leong]

Awesome! That's about where I'm going. I have another custom camera company on the adaptor build now (not Baier, he hasn't replied yet) who will look through the kit and design/build something to fit.
Will keep you posted and put pix up if and when!
Best
C

 

[Dan Daniel]

Hi Chris- Just saw this.

a) The finder frame was off of another camera. Over the years I've picked up various parts cameras and had an extra hood setup.
The issue here is that the hood setup holds the focus screen in place. So it's sort of important

Drop me a PM and we can see about getting you a frame if I have one around.

b) Yes, the NC-2 has a plate crewed into its bottom. Unscrew it, and the prism slides into the stripped-down hood. It slides in from the top. I used tape to hold it in place. The prism needs a spacer to raise it above the focus screen for it to focus properly. On the chimney finder the diopter/focus piece will take care of this.

I didn't plan to carry the camera by the prism or chimney finder so the tape didn't worry me.

c) Again, tape holds it in place. I was using an old chimney finder which had the mounting flange shaped out of the main body. I don't know if later chimney finders have a mounting plate screwed in like the NC-2 prism.

Here's a link to the chimney finder on an Autocord. The Rollei hood frame is almost the same size.

Hope this helps. Let me know if you need more info.

Dan, hello!
Contemplating a 2.8E mod to take a Hassy chimney finder and would like some clarification about your post. I know it's much later on but what can I say? Rolleis still rule!

a) "I took a broken Rolleiflex hood and removed all of the moving parts, getting it down to just the frame that screws to the camera body..." by this I take it you mean the older, non-removable type of waist level finder, rather than one off a 2.8F, for instance? So in that case, how were you able to buy an older WLF without buying an entire camera, just for its WLF? Or did you do that?

b) "The NC-2 prism slides right in - AFTER you remove the mounting plate." I take it that the mounting plate you mention is the NC-2's mounting plate, right? How is it secured after it slides right in?

c) Same question about the Hassy chimney finder - how does it stay on, since the flange that's usually holding the finder to the body has now been ground away?

Sorry to seem a little dense, but without having these pieces actually in front of me, it's a little difficult to see how the Hassy parts would just slide in and stay put, so to speak...

Thanks!

Best
Chris

 

[Chris Ross Leong]

Dan, good morning and thanks!
Yes, between us all I believe that I have a great idea as to what's needed to get an intermediate hood made up.

I'm having an adaptor specified at this moment. It will be a replacement (screw-in) top for the older Rolleis that have non-interchangeable viewfinders.
It will have a ground-glass holder and a provision for sliding new finders on top of it.

The question I'd like to put to the thread at this point is this:
Rolleiflex? Or Hasselblad?

Considering that Rollei is no more and the parts are scarce and becoming scarcer on the one hand, and that Hassel is still going and also Kiev and others make 3rd party finders, and that parts are common and inexpensive, I originally thought Hasselblad.

However, I'm not so sure any more.

How do you feel about a hybrid adaptor?
Would you like your Rollei to be a Rollei through and through?
The adaptor would be manufactured by a well-respected and well-known camera engineering company and would not be cheap - i.e. in the $150-300 range, depending on how the design turns out. It would allow for ground glass and finder shimming for critical focus in both planes. It would be professionally milled and finished.

So it could be just a conversion adaptor that takes a non-interchangeable VF model Rollei and makes it a later-model one as far as the VF and GG go.
Or it could be a converter that takes an old version Rollei and adds Hasselblad/Kiev VF capability.

Thoughts?

 

[Chris Ross Leong]

Dan, how do I find your message section? There doesn't seem to be a way I can ask you about the WLF...
Best
Chris

[edit: Got it, thanks!]

Anybody else might be interested, please say so now, I might be able to get a discount before too long!

Plus this: the thought occurred, (and since the adaptor will be the main GG holder and screwed tight to the body), that the GG mount needs to allow for critical focus shimming. To that end, I think I'm going to order a second GG in a simple rig that snaps into the film gate and holds that second GG precisely at the film plane.

So that focus rig, plus some shims for the main GG mounting area, should be sufficient to allow a fellow to
a) buy or modify any of the newer 6x6 GGs available on most sites for pretty much any 6x6 camera,
b) mount that glass into the adaptor, and
c) use the focus rig and more shims to check and, if necessary, to re-calibrate accurate focus with the new GG.

It's not as elegant a system as with the more modern bodies, but once critical focus shimming has been performed to the camera being adapted, it would then be possible to change out GGs and, by retaining the same set of shims inside the camera, retain the critical focus calibration.

Me, though, I'd use the second GG in the gate to confirm this before critical work.

Just thoughts, for the moment.