Rolleiflex 2.8 in good condition?

[Armoose]

Hi I am new to medium format cameras. After hours of brain draining research I decided to go with the rolleiflex 2.8 TLR. I found one online and my main worry is buying one without a return policy but the one I found is a really good find. From my research the two main concerns are with lens haze/fungus as well as separation. The seller says there is none and only light dust on lens. Judging from these photos do yall think it looks ok. I just dont live in an area where I found one in hand. Any help is appreciated!

 

[shutterfinger]

Only the last photo comes up viewable, all others are thumbnails and too small to determine anything.
Based on the last photo the front cells are fine, open the aperture to f2.8 and photograph them again with the back open and straight into the lens.

 

[btaylor]

Looks nice! Unless the seller has a documented receipt for a recent CLA from a reputable shop figure you’re going to spend a few hundred on service. Which is not a big deal, as that beautiful camera will give you many years of great photos. Enjoy!

 

[Armoose]

Only the last photo comes up viewable, all others are thumbnails and too small to determine anything.
Based on the last photo the front cells are fine, open the aperture to f2.8 and photograph them again with the back open and straight into the lens.

Here they are bigger I think

 

[Dan Daniel]

There is more to a Rolleiflex than the lenses. Look at the overall condition of the camera. Check how the back fits against the body. Paint condition on the rim of the raised circle at the wind lever. Straightness and condition of the focus hood. Etc. For your figuring, rough ideas of what problems in other areas will cost you- Shutter, $125, focus $175, winding system- $175.

Looks to be an E? Worth $600-800 base, add for excellent condition, recent overhaul, etc. My numbers might be low because many camera prices have been rising in the last few months.

On an Ebay camera with no returns, best to be certain that either the listing goes over condition, or you ask questions and get in writing from seller. This allows you to return because it didn't match seller's description.

Not to send your brain down the drain again, but don't ignore Rolleiflex 3.5 models.

 

[removedacct1]

What Dan said.
It looks to be in "high average" condition, but what matters more is matching the price with its service history and functionality.

 

[BradS]

There is more to a Rolleiflex than the lenses. Look at the overall condition of the camera. Check how the back fits against the body. Paint condition on the rim of the raised circle at the wind lever. Straightness and condition of the focus hood. Etc. For your figuring, rough ideas of what problems in other areas will cost you- Shutter, $125, focus $175, winding system- $175.

Looks to be an E? Worth $600-800 base, add for excellent condition, recent overhaul, etc. My numbers might be low because many camera prices have been rising in the last few months.

On an Ebay camera with no returns, best to be certain that either the listing goes over condition, or you ask questions and get in writing from seller. This allows you to return because it didn't match seller's description.

Not to send your brain down the drain again, but don't ignore Rolleiflex 3.5 models.

Thanks for sharing these excellent insights.

 

[btaylor]

Not to send your brain down the drain again, but don't ignore Rolleiflex 3.5 models.

All Dan’s advise is spot on. His comment on the 3.5 models I find especially true. I have a couple of 2.8 models and personally I find they do not balance in my hands nearly as well as the 3.5, the 2.8’s are front heavy. My final Rollei TLR purchase was a 3.5f for that reason. What’s a half a stop with today’s great fast films anyway.

 

[Armoose]

There is more to a Rolleiflex than the lenses. Look at the overall condition of the camera. Check how the back fits against the body. Paint condition on the rim of the raised circle at the wind lever. Straightness and condition of the focus hood. Etc. For your figuring, rough ideas of what problems in other areas will cost you- Shutter, $125, focus $175, winding system- $175.

Looks to be an E? Worth $600-800 base, add for excellent condition, recent overhaul, etc. My numbers might be low because many camera prices have been rising in the last few months.

On an Ebay camera with no returns, best to be certain that either the listing goes over condition, or you ask questions and get in writing from seller. This allows you to return because it didn't match seller's description.

Not to send your brain down the drain again, but don't ignore Rolleiflex 3.5 models.

Thank you for that info and advice! Do you think $875 is too much for it? Appreciate the advice

 

[Dan Daniel]

Thank you for that info and advice! Do you think $875 is too much for it? Appreciate the advice

Again, I may be out of touch with the market these days so... $875 for a 2.8 E Xenotar (assuming it is an E) would be medium high. I'd expect a warranty or return option.

For your first medium format, I would suggest that you be careful of Ebay sellers. If they have a few thousand sales and yet aren't willing to take returns, something is fishy. If it is a smaller seller, under 1000 over many years, they might be ok. Look at their previous sales. If they are selling lots of cameras and won't offer a return, I suggest walking away. If they have thousands of sales of all sorts of flea market goods and they say 'don't know how to test, so as-is' RUN. They do this for a living and they know damn well how to test a camera. Places like KEH, Roberts, I'm sure other people have names, will be honest and handle things if something goes wrong. I got my best Rolleiflex by putting a 'wanted' classified in a place like this- a much safer place to buy and sell as both parties are usually more honest and more interested in making certain both sides are content.

Back to the camera above, can you post any full body or other images? Hard to know the condition. Some Rolleis have been in garages collecting oxidation. Some have been ridden hard by pros who knew how to keep glass clean but have beaten the mechanics into the ground.

And then at some point you just have to dive in. If you are prepared to drop another $200-400 on a camera with no returns, go for it.

 

[Armoose]

Again, I may be out of touch with the market these days so... $875 for a 2.8 E Xenotar (assuming it is an E) would be medium high. I'd expect a warranty or return option.

For your first medium format, I would suggest that you be careful of Ebay sellers. If they have a few thousand sales and yet aren't willing to take returns, something is fishy. If it is a smaller seller, under 1000 over many years, they might be ok. Look at their previous sales. If they are selling lots of cameras and won't offer a return, I suggest walking away. If they have thousands of sales of all sorts of flea market goods and they say 'don't know how to test, so as-is' RUN. They do this for a living and they know damn well how to test a camera. Places like KEH, Roberts, I'm sure other people have names, will be honest and handle things if something goes wrong. I got my best Rolleiflex by putting a 'wanted' classified in a place like this- a much safer place to buy and sell as both parties are usually more honest and more interested in making certain both sides are content.

Back to the camera above, can you post any full body or other images? Hard to know the condition. Some Rolleis have been in garages collecting oxidation. Some have been ridden hard by pros who knew how to keep glass clean but have beaten the mechanics into the ground.

And then at some point you just have to dive in. If you are prepared to drop another $200-400 on a camera with no returns, go for it.

Here are some more photos. I will do more research on this and see if I can ask this seller for a return option. Or I will wait until the more reputable sources receive one. But from these photos do you see anything glaringly wrong?

Also the seller has a 100% rating with 373 reviews. They have sold other cameras in the past.

Thank you for your help, you have been really awesome. This is a journey that is just beginning for me.

 

[Ron (Netherlands)]

Ask yourself if you want that 2.8E - also - because of the inbuilt lightmeter. There is a smaller risk the meter is not functioning if you would buy a less old 2.8f or 3.5T.
If you do not go for the meter, I would strongly advise to buy a Rolleiflex without a meter, since they go for quite a bit lower prices.

 

[campy51]

I bought an as is 2.8C that has a few problems. I bought it from a reputable on line dealer that offers a 30 day return. I spoke to them several times over the phone and was told the taking and viewing lenses had separation but the camera looked really nice and the shutter seemed to be accurate. I ended up buying it and the separation turned out to be fungus and with the help of this forum I was able to clean most of it but as it turned out there was another problem that was beyond what I was willing to try and fix so I sent it out for a cleaning and the light baffle replacement and was quoted $200 for the repair which is very reasonable. So what does this story have to do with your situation? The reason I am telling it is maybe you can find one in good condition for much less that might have a problem that a good cleaning will correct by someone that's qualified for $200-300. I spent $350 for my 2.8C and with the repair of $200 I will have a nice camera for $550-600 counting the shipping back and forth. If I were going to pay $875 for one I would expect it not to need any work.

 

[EdSawyer]

it looks to have minor fungus starting on the edges of the taking lens, based on the photo in the first post. I'd avoid it. Also, the Planar is a better lens, I'd hold out for a 2.8F planar. 3.5F planar is a nice choice too.

 

[dpurdy]

it looks to have minor fungus starting on the edges of the taking lens, based on the photo in the first post. I'd avoid it. Also, the Planar is a better lens, I'd hold out for a 2.8F planar. 3.5F planar is a nice choice too.

That should be expressed as your opinion not as a fact. The 2.8Planar is not a better lens. In my experience with several Rolleis including the 2.8F and the 2.8FX I have now, after lots and lots of testing, I consistently find the Xenotar to be the better lens for reason of less flare and less issue of separation and better coating... along with equal if not better sharpness.

 

[Dan Daniel]

Ah, the old Planar/Xenotar debate.

Here are some more photos. I will do more research on this and see if I can ask this seller for a return option. Or I will wait until the more reputable sources receive one. But from these photos do you see anything glaringly wrong?

Also the seller has a 100% rating with 373 reviews. They have sold other cameras in the past.

Thank you for your help, you have been really awesome. This is a journey that is just beginning for me.
View attachment 235335

I like that number of sales. It means that they are serious but not running a volume business.

I don't see anything glaringly wrong.

Does the listing say that focus and shutter are operating? In working condition? As I mentioned, it's best to have condition statements in writing from the seller, whether in the leisting or in questions and answers. Asking questions can also give you a feel for the seller.

Yeah, it's a journey. If this is your first medium format camera, you may find that this camera will not be your last. So many different types of cameras, and that nagging feeling, just WHAT is this Hasselblad/Fuji/Maiya/etc/etc thing all about? (and let's just avoid the Planar/Xenotar thing- both are excellent lenses).

Whether to buy this camera or not, again, are you ready to need to put more money into it? Very simply, this is a possibility with this camera. The 'no return' thing is showing up more and more for small time sellers- Ebay changed its policy so that 30 days is required for any returns. For a small seller, living in fear of having to refund $900 for a month isn't worth it so they go to a no return policy. Another reason to get a conversation going with the seller through questions- if there are problems, you'll have an idea of their temperament if you want to return or ask for a partial refund.

OK, just found the listing on Ebay. I'd pass. Japan and no returns puts it in dangerous territory. I'm sure the seller... oh, hey, it says that shutter is not working?? No movemnt in meter? Yep, definite PASS.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/EXC-Rollei...831660?hash=item3d8665ec6c:g:NW4AAOSwYHtbpP78
Many Japan sellers have low number sales because they close down stores again and again. Also some serious used camera businesses so mid-size sellers are common.

Patience and due diligence. Again, put up 'wanted to buy' notes here and at rangefinderforum.com (many TLR people there; might also send a note to use bherman who is very honest about his cameras).

 

[choiliefan]

The shutter appears to be wide open in your pics. I haven't read all the replies his may indicate a problem.

 

[btaylor]

Yikes- I just read the description. Fungus is noted, lens scratches, shutter and meter inoperable. Pay a few hundred more to a reputable seller and get a good example- it is way less stressful and less expensive in the end!

 

[Ron (Netherlands)]

Price is far too high for a camera with so many severe issues .....especially if you are a user and not a collector..

 

[film_man]

One comment on ebay, it doesn't matter if the seller says no returns, you are still eligible for a return+refund if the item is not as described/broken/wrong. Especially if you pay with paypal they generally err on the side of the buyer which can be almost to the point of sellers being scammed. Just make sure that you read the description, check the photos and you can still return something if it arrives fungus ridden and inoperable when it was described as clean and working. The only exception is on items sold for parts/as is.

 

[Dan Daniel]

One comment on ebay, it doesn't matter if the seller says no returns, you are still eligible for a return+refund if the item is not as described/broken/wrong. Especially if you pay with paypal they generally err on the side of the buyer which can be almost to the point of sellers being scammed. Just make sure that you read the description, check the photos and you can still return something if it arrives fungus ridden and inoperable when it was described as clean and working. The only exception is on items sold for parts/as is.

Even the parts/as-is claim will allow for returns if the description is actively wrong. Which I why I suggest writing the seller and asking about specific concerns before buying something. Maybe there is no discussion of, say, the condition of the focus screen in a description but a focus screen is one of the reasons I want to buy a parts camera. Send a note, get a response, on central items. Best as I know, Ebay will consider such communication as a 'claim of condition' by the seller.

 

[EdSawyer]

Both the Christopher Perez tests and tests from Modern Photography (among other objective tests) confirm that indeed the Planar is better than the Xenotar. It's not opinion, it's fact. That said, sure, a xenotar is a nice lens too but all else being equal the planar is always the better choice. They hold value better as well if you ever need to resell.

-Ed

 

[Ron (Netherlands)]

Both the Christopher Perez tests and tests from Modern Photography (among other objective tests) confirm that indeed the Planar is better than the Xenotar. It's not opinion, it's fact. That said, sure, a xenotar is a nice lens too but all else being equal the planar is always the better choice. They hold value better as well if you ever need to resell.
-Ed

...perhaps supported by the fact that when these camera's were sold new in the old days, the Planar was the preferred lens by Rollei, and the camera with the Planar was sold at a higher price. Old 2.8's which I've seen fetched higher prices if they have the Planar.
Further you would be very lucky to find an old 2.8C with a Xenotar that has no damaged coatings.
But I don't think you would normally see a difference in sharpness or resolution power.

 

[jvo]

1. dan daniel's advice is always solid

2. check ebay - i believe if an item is sold as "used" it must "be working as originally intended." if it is not, it can be returned and you can get your money back, regardless of whether the seller offers returns. if the item is marked "as is" or "for parts only" that doesn't apply. check first.

3. if you know medium format is for you, you will love the rolleiflex - great camera. the 3.5's are great. if you wondering about medium format and want to try it, you may want to consider a yashicamat 124g - easy entry/less cost, relable camera. not as well built as the rollei, but good.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Both the Christopher Perez tests and tests from Modern Photography (among other objective tests) confirm that indeed the Planar is better than the Xenotar. It's not opinion, it's fact. That said, sure, a xenotar is a nice lens too but all else being equal the planar is always the better choice. They hold value better as well if you ever need to resell.

-Ed

Chris Perez tested several rolleiflex and found that a xenotar 2.8 and 3.5 beat the planar on center sharpness in 2/3 samples. The planar beat the xenotar in edge sharpness in all samples. I'd love to see the modern photography results too, but I'm not sure Mr. Perez's tests are as conclusive as some may say they are.