Rolleicord Vb lens ghosting

[aferrarini]

I own a nice Rolleicord Vb with xenar lens. I usually use also a yellow filter and and an original lens hood when shooting outside. However quite often the images show ghosts if the sky is bright even if I'm not shooting against the sun. Is it normal? The lens shows few dust inside. From what I know the xenar should be (single) coated.

Alberto

 

[cliveh]

Are you sure it is winding on correctly?

 

[aferrarini]

Why?

Think so. However, sorry, but maybe I didn't understand correctly your question. How should lens ghosting be related to winding?

Are you sure it is winding on correctly?

 

[henry finley]

I own a nice Rolleicord Vb with xenar lens. I usually use also a yellow filter and and an original lens hood when shooting outside. However quite often the images show ghosts if the sky is bright even if I'm not shooting against the sun. Is it normal? The lens shows few dust inside. From what I know the xenar should be (single) coated.

Alberto

What you need to do is check your lens more thoroughly by a better method. I bet a nickle you're going to see interior haze inside between the elements, perhaps between the 2 cemented elements of the tessar-type lens you have. Get an ordinary table lamp with the ordinary lampshade that has the white paper interior. Get your lens in close proximity to the bulb (within a foot or less), and seek to turn the camera in a manner that sets up a flare situation inside the lens. You may need to turn it some unknown direction to be sighting against the white lampshade interior or the bulb, or both, until you see it. This is the harshest test I've ever concocted to check for interior haze. Even better, get a 50mm lens from a 35, turned around backwards in your hand for a close inspection while you do this. I'll bet a nickel that Rollei lens is hazed inside. They ALL are. A vast majority of those Rollei lenses are hopeless, which is a shame.

 

[cliveh]

Think so. However, sorry, but maybe I didn't understand correctly your question. How should lens ghosting be related to winding?

I just wondered if this is related to double exposure.

 

[aferrarini]

What you need to do is check your lens more thoroughly by a better method. I bet a nickle you're going to see interior haze inside between the elements, perhaps between the 2 cemented elements of the tessar-type lens you have. Get an ordinary table lamp with the ordinary lampshade that has the white paper interior. Get your lens in close proximity to the bulb (within a foot or less), and seek to turn the camera in a manner that sets up a flare situation inside the lens. You may need to turn it some unknown direction to be sighting against the white lampshade interior or the bulb, or both, until you see it. This is the harshest test I've ever concocted to check for interior haze. Even better, get a 50mm lens from a 35, turned around backwards in your hand for a close inspection while you do this. I'll bet a nickel that Rollei lens is hazed inside. They ALL are. A vast majority of those Rollei lenses are hopeless, which is a shame.

Mmm that's quite bad. I got a look with a lamp as you suggested. What I could see is not really an "haze" but the lens is much dirtier than I could recognize before. But maybe I'm not able to recognize the "haze" you are speaking about. Do you think sending it to a repairman would help reducing the problem or should I just live with it? I would like anyway to continue using the camera. Apart from the frames in which the ghosts appear the images look quite good with good contrast and resolution.

 

[aferrarini]

I just wondered if this is related to double exposure.

I would exclude that. I think is more something related to the lens.

 

[henry finley]

Mmm that's quite bad. I got a look with a lamp as you suggested. What I could see is not really an "haze" but the lens is much dirtier than I could recognize before. But maybe I'm not able to recognize the "haze" you are speaking about. Do you think sending it to a repairman would help reducing the problem or should I just live with it? I would like anyway to continue using the camera. Apart from the frames in which the ghosts appear the images look quite good with good contrast and resolution.

So it WAS pretty bad, as I had suspected. To answer that, my answer is rather harsh--that is you OBVIOUSLY are not happy, so something needs to be done. I am a "self-certified" Rollei man, who has no business fooling with somebody elses'. So I'm afraid you're going to have to find a good man to get this problem remedied. And if it is between the cemented elements, then you'll need to dig very deep in the wallet. I hate this for you. The VB was possibly Rollei's best camera from a compactness versus performance standpoint. If you decide to take on the project yourself, you stand a HUGE chance of de-valuing your VB severely. One chewed-up screw slot from a bad fitting screwdriver and that VB will be nothing but another ruined collector's piece.

 

[henry finley]

Mmm that's quite bad. I got a look with a lamp as you suggested. What I could see is not really an "haze" but the lens is much dirtier than I could recognize before. But maybe I'm not able to recognize the "haze" you are speaking about. Do you think sending it to a repairman would help reducing the problem or should I just live with it? I would like anyway to continue using the camera. Apart from the frames in which the ghosts appear the images look quite good with good contrast and resolution.

Another thing--check your filter the same way. What looks clear just holding it up to the blue sky can totally fail the light-bulb test.

 

[aferrarini]

So it WAS pretty bad, as I had suspected. To answer that, my answer is rather harsh--that is you OBVIOUSLY are not happy, so something needs to be done. I am a "self-certified" Rollei man, who has no business fooling with somebody elses'. So I'm afraid you're going to have to find a good man to get this problem remedied. And if it is between the cemented elements, then you'll need to dig very deep in the wallet. I hate this for you. The VB was possibly Rollei's best camera from a compactness versus performance standpoint. If you decide to take on the project yourself, you stand a HUGE chance of de-valuing your VB severely. One chewed-up screw slot from a bad fitting screwdriver and that VB will be nothing but another ruined collector's piece.

The camera came with a 1 year warranty from the shop where I bought it used and I still have 5 months. I'll ask them if they can send it to repair or maybe I could upgrade to a rolleiflex or exchange to another rolleicord. I would prefer however to keep the Vb as I like its simplicity and low weight.

 

[summicron1]

if it is under warranty then by all means, send it in with sample photos to show the problem -- you don't say precisely what you mean by ghosting, but double images of any sort shouldn't be showing up and can mean a bad misallignment of the lenses or lens separation -- a lens problem of that magnitude will cost more to repair than it would cost to just replace the camera.

which, if i were you, i would ask the seller to do. The Vb is a lovely camera, although if you like it you could also look at a Va, which is the same thing except it lacks the removable hood and costs less.

 

[henry finley]

Mr Aferrarini--Please know I did not want to come off a big know-it-all, too much. I've found there's other guys smarter than me about these things. So keep waiting--a good Rollei man on here might answer you with better answers than mine. I gave up on the Rolleis--too rare to find a virgin one, and owning them is too much of a responsibility. You become an unpaid one-man museum curator. The Hasselblads are a dime a dozen, perform well, are well-made, and a CM is about as compact as a Rollei. And, I've gotten pretty good of working on them. I'd rather have 2 parts Hasselblads off EBAY to make 1 out of, and I'm happy. Just food for thought.

 

[henry finley]

if it is under warranty then by all means, send it in with sample photos to show the problem -- you don't say precisely what you mean by ghosting, but double images of any sort shouldn't be showing up and can mean a bad misallignment of the lenses or lens separation -- a lens problem of that magnitude will cost more to repair than it would cost to just replace the camera.

which, if i were you, i would ask the seller to do. The Vb is a lovely camera, although if you like it you could also look at a Va, which is the same thing except it lacks the removable hood and costs less.

I thouht the VB was where they got rid of that annoying EV combination locked lever. I could be wrong.

 

[aferrarini]

if it is under warranty then by all means, send it in with sample photos to show the problem -- you don't say precisely what you mean by ghosting, but double images of any sort shouldn't be showing up and can mean a bad misallignment of the lenses or lens separation -- a lens problem of that magnitude will cost more to repair than it would cost to just replace the camera.

which, if i were you, i would ask the seller to do. The Vb is a lovely camera, although if you like it you could also look at a Va, which is the same thing except it lacks the removable hood and costs less.

What I meant with "ghosts" is that in photographs with bright sky some (almost) round darker spots appear in the sky portion of the photo. I thought it was due to the fact the coating is not as good as in newer lenses but what puzzled me is that it happens also when not light source is present in the shot. I always use a lens hood.

Anyway, I'll speak with the shop owner and see what can be done. Just checked and they have another Vb available and some rolleiflex (but they are way toooo expensive).

 

[henry finley]

What I meant with "ghosts" is that in photographs with bright sky some (almost) round darker spots appear in the sky portion of the photo. I thought it was due to the fact the coating is not as good as in newer lenses but what puzzled me is that it happens also when not light source is present in the shot. I always use a lens hood.

Anyway, I'll speak with the shop owner and see what can be done. Just checked and they have another Vb available and some rolleiflex (but they are way toooo expensive).

No, that's just bad film, bad developing, or other film related. I thought you were talking about something resembling halation. We were mis-communicating. Your camera is probably fine and just needs a lens disassembly and cleaning.

 

[aferrarini]

Mr Aferrarini--Please know I did not want to come off a big know-it-all, too much. I've found there's other guys smarter than me about these things. So keep waiting--a good Rollei man on here might answer you with better answers than mine. I gave up on the Rolleis--too rare to find a virgin one, and owning them is too much of a responsibility. You become an unpaid one-man museum curator. The Hasselblads are a dime a dozen, perform well, are well-made, and a CM is about as compact as a Rollei. And, I've gotten pretty good of working on them. I'd rather have 2 parts Hasselblads off EBAY to make 1 out of, and I'm happy. Just food for thought.

Thanks Henry for sharing your thoughts!
Maybe one day I'll buy an Hasselblad but for the moment I've already accumulated too much stuff (2 35mm nikon bodies + a bunch of primes, 1 dslr, 1 mirrorless, the rolley plus some point & shoot) and I need to settle down on what I have and concentrate on photographs...

 

[henry finley]

Thanks Henry for sharing your thoughts!
Maybe one day I'll buy an Hasselblad but for the moment I've already accumulated too much stuff (2 35mm nikon bodies + a bunch of primes, 1 dslr, 1 mirrorless, the rolley plus some point & shoot) and I need to settle down on what I have and concentrate on photographs...

Smart idea, which is why I settled on a home made junk-box Hasselblad I made out of leftovers. I don't have to be an unpaid one-man museum curator, having to be caretaker of somebody elses' Rolleiflex after I die. Enjoy it friend, it's a sweet compact little shooter.--HTF

 

[aferrarini]

No, that's just bad film, bad developing, or other film related. I thought you were talking about something resembling halation. We were mis-communicating. Your camera is probably fine and just needs a lens disassembly and cleaning.

I thought about that but it never happened with other cameras (all 35mm) so I thought they could be internal reflections in the lens. Anyway, everything is possible and, even if developing/printing by myself from at least 6-7 year, I don't consider myself as an expert. I'll check my development process for possible problems and errors.

 

[henry finley]

I suppose it MIGHT be able to come from the lens, but I've always discounted the notion. You'd have to be stopped down pretty far and the specks would need to be in the in a unlucky place. Sounds like possible specks on the filter, with the lens stopped way down. That's what I think. But when you use the Kodak film, nothing ever came from there that was not perfect. Ilford also. And not using old developer with trash in it.

 

[tkamiya]

What I meant with "ghosts" is that in photographs with bright sky some (almost) round darker spots appear in the sky portion of the photo.

Do you mean round darker spots ON FILM or on PRINT? I ask because it sounds like you may be talking about lens flare but that will appaer as brighter spots on print and darker spots on film.

Another creative possibility is, you may have a very strange light leak which casts a shadow on film.

Can you possibly post an image of film or print, so we can see what you are talking about? I had a Rolleicord V for about a year but did not experience such problems. I doubt very much you have a lens flare either....

 

[250swb]

Wow, if ever a thread should have been halted until the meaning of the OP was clear.

It is still a jumble because of the uncertainty of the spots being on the film or the print, but the lens is an unlikely culprit and always has been. If it is so bad that black spots appear anywhere, print or negative, the fault would be easily visible on or in the lens. Try it, you can stick all sorts of things on a lens and apart from mild degradation you'd need to nearly cover it in dust and dirt for any major differences to be shown prominently on the print/neg. Something else is happening, and while the description of 'spot in the sky' may still be unclear, a light leak is possible. So the OP should check the tripod socket and make sure that an over long tripod screw hasn't popped the base of the socket and light is leaking in and 'burning' through the backing paper, so fogging the negative.

Steve

 

[aferrarini]

Do you mean round darker spots ON FILM or on PRINT? I ask because it sounds like you may be talking about lens flare but that will appaer as brighter spots on print and darker spots on film.

Another creative possibility is, you may have a very strange light leak which casts a shadow on film.

Can you possibly post an image of film or print, so we can see what you are talking about? I had a Rolleicord V for about a year but did not experience such problems. I doubt very much you have a lens flare either....

It's clear my explanation was a bit confusing... Spots are on film and appear as brighter spots on film and darker spots on print. Today evening I'll post a scan from a contact sheet to clarify it.

 

[BrianShaw]

I thouht the VB was where they got rid of that annoying EV combination locked lever. I could be wrong.

You are. The Vb still had that most useful device.

 

[cjbecker]

I want to see some examples.

 

[aferrarini]

I want to see some examples.

Unfortunatly I should have thrown away all the corresponding prints. I only found a small contact print but I recognize it's a very bad example. Also the scanning is of very bad quality . Here the spots look like dirty but on real prints and film they look much more regular. However, as already suggested it might be something wrong with the development process.