Rollei Digibase C-41

epatsellis · Aug 27, 2010

I'm willing to bet some nasty color crossovers. End our passive curiosity, put us out of our misery, shoot a roll of Macbeth charts and have a go at it.

cbphoto · Aug 27, 2010

Just ordered the 20 roll kit for my shoots next week. I was a little frustrated that I can't get any C-41 locally except *maybe* Kodak (stock levels are questionable, and it looks like only big quantities are available), and B&H is now listing the Tetenal liquid as discontinued.

michaelbsc · Aug 27, 2010

epatsellis said:
I'm willing to bet some nasty color crossovers..

My thoughts, too.

epatsellis said:
End our passive curiosity, put us out of our misery, shoot a roll of Macbeth charts and have a go at it.

Looks like I'm going to be forced to just that. Give me a few weeks. I've got a few other things on my plate right now. And I don't have a MacBeth chart, but I've got color things I can shoot. If my hair is blue, then you'll know it's wrong. (If my DAUGHTER'S hair is blue, it might be right.

EdSawyer · Aug 27, 2010

40 rolls in 1L of chemistry scares me. Changing development times on the SSK-4 is a hassle, plus what I shoot is too valuable to me (and sometimes can't be reshot) to risk sketchy extended-time development to save a few dollars worth of chemistry. Thus I use C-41 chemistry as one-shot except for bleach.

What's the density like at that point, after 40 rolls? How are the control strips if you run any?

I had an option to get a nice wing-lynch (version 5 I think) from where I work, but I passed. I don't do nearly enough processing to warrant the size and complexity of it, chemistry would likely go bad on me before I could use it all. The SSK-4 is the perfect size for my needs. If I was doing a lot of volume I could see a WL being viable. It looked well built and pretty well engineered.

That sucks if the Tetenal liquid kit is discontinued from B&H. That was a fairly decent deal, overall and gave good results in my experience.

Dilution/extending time is almost certainly going to give color crossover and weird unprintable results. Extending the time is viable up to a point, but not diluting, from what I have read.

FWIW
-Ed

michaelbsc · Aug 27, 2010

Somebody tell me, us the 20 roll kit from Freestyle 1L of working solution? Meaning that the 10 roll kit mixes up to 500ml?

I read the instructions PDF but it isn't clear how much is in the kit.

cbphoto · Aug 27, 2010

EdSawyer said:
That sucks if the Tetenal liquid kit is discontinued from B&H. That was a fairly decent deal, overall and gave good results in my experience.

They have been known to just make stuff up before, but either way, Freestyle sells a similar (maybe the same) kit under the Arista label for $70.

cbphoto · Aug 27, 2010

michaelbsc said:
Somebody tell me, us the 20 roll kit from Freestyle 1L of working solution? Meaning that the 10 roll kit mixes up to 500ml?

I read the instructions PDF but it isn't clear how much is in the kit.

That's what it looks like (see the Maco site). I bought two kits since I like to do batches of 4 rolls each on big jobs, and my tank needs 1.4L for that. They make 2.5L and 5L kits as well. Hopefully Freestyle gets those eventually.

dbla · Sep 3, 2010

Okay I have a general question about this, I just mixed up a 250ml batch of working solution... I reuse this right? For how long?? I'm processing 4x5 sheets and I just ran a batch of six sheet... still haven't scanned the sheets to check results but... I'm really new to this... Since there are only enough chemicals for 4 batches of 250ml working solutions, can I expect to process 20 sheets or so from each batch of working solution??

-a

cbphoto · Sep 4, 2010

1 L is good for 20-24 rolls of 35mm, according to the specs, so 1/4 of that is 5-6 rolls. Find the equivalent surface area of 4x5 (saw it in a post here recently).

I developed 20 rolls with one midi kit this week, and the results were good all the way through, although the last 8 rolls were bleach-bypass. I kept it at 100 degrees F, and used Kodak's times and wash instructions rather than Rollei's. i also used Kodak's final rinse, since Rollei does not supply enough in the kit (what the hell is that all about?).

dbla · Sep 4, 2010

So, what I am asking is saving the working solution I made tonight in my Jobo's bottles to be used over the next few days is fine? This kit should do roughly 80 sheets, I might shoot for 60, I did six tonight, so that leave me with quite a bit of capacity out of this 250ml. Are they temperature sensitive right now? I don't need to keep them tempered do I? I think that would be damn near impossible.

-a

steelneck · Sep 4, 2010

cbphoto said:
1 L is good for 20-24 rolls of 35mm, according to the specs, ..

i also used Kodak's final rinse, since Rollei does not supply enough in the kit (what the hell is that all about?).

The rinse/stab have much higher capacity, according to the specs, 1L is enough for 60 35mm rolls, that would explain the difference in volume.

fotch · Sep 4, 2010

dbla said:
So, what I am asking is saving the working solution I made tonight in my Jobo's bottles to be used over the next few days is fine? This kit should do roughly 80 sheets, I might shoot for 60, I did six tonight, so that leave me with quite a bit of capacity out of this 250ml. Are they temperature sensitive right now? I don't need to keep them tempered do I? I think that would be damn near impossible.

-a

No

cbphoto · Sep 4, 2010

steelneck said:
The rinse/stab have much higher capacity, according to the specs, 1L is enough for 60 35mm rolls, that would explain the difference in volume.

But they only supply enough to make 500ml, so I can't cover all the rolls at once. I don't get it. Are they expecting me to do it twice?

cbphoto · Sep 4, 2010

dbla said:
So, what I am asking is saving the working solution I made tonight in my Jobo's bottles to be used over the next few days is fine? This kit should do roughly 80 sheets, I might shoot for 60, I did six tonight, so that leave me with quite a bit of capacity out of this 250ml. Are they temperature sensitive right now? I don't need to keep them tempered do I? I think that would be damn near impossible.

-a

Fine to reuse it until you reach the capacity. A few days should be fine, and no, you don't have to store them at the process temp.

mikecnichols · Sep 11, 2010

Just received my first kit via FedEx. While wrapped, I noticed that the instructions looked a little wet. Once opened up, I found that the Stabilizer had somehow leaked.

steelneck · Sep 11, 2010

mikecnichols said:
I noticed that the instructions looked a little wet. .. I found that the Stabilizer had somehow leaked.

That makes stabilized instructions..

Sorry, i could not resist.

mikecnichols · Sep 11, 2010

steelneck said:
That makes stabilized instructions..

Sorry, i could not resist.

Too funny....I called Freestyle and it looks like they'll be sending me a new kit. Not sure if I'll have to return this since it is chemicals.

hrst · Sep 11, 2010

Even a very few cases of bad leaking can be quite disastrous for the product, because it's a sign they can't seal the bottles well. This is catastrophic for the developer, because it needs the nitrogen protection from oxidation and as a gas it leaks even more easily than liquids. So, chances are that you may get a dead developer.

I've said this many times before, but I would buy decent products from the real manufacturers.

steelneck · Sep 12, 2010

hrst said:
Even a very few cases of bad leaking can be quite disastrous for the product, because it's a sign they can't seal the bottles well. This is catastrophic for the developer, because it needs the nitrogen protection from oxidation and as a gas it leaks even more easily than liquids. So, chances are that you may get a dead developer.

Yes, the small Rollei digibase kit bottles could be better sealed, but i do not think the developer needs nitrogen protection since there are no bottle containing the active working developer. The ingredients are split up in 4 different parts. I suspect, meaning i am not sure, that they get around the oxidation problem in a way that can be compared to how you can get around the same problem by mixing phenidone in glycol and get extremely long shelf life as long as it is not mixed with water and the activator.

This is a conclusion i make from the poor bottle seals together with the statement of very long shelf life. Normally this would be a contradiction, but i do not think they would jeopardize their reputation, and thus i draw that conclusion. So far it seem to hold up, both my opened concentrates and the working solutions have not shown any deterioration after 4 months in less than ideal storage.

The problem with these developer kits, as i see it, is the lack of deeper information and user experiences. The latter part is understandable since it is a new product, but the former should Rollei be criticized for. This was the reason for me to start this discussion in the first place and i hope that user experiences over time will make up for the lack of deeper information.

mikecnichols · Sep 12, 2010

steelneck said:
Yes, the small Rollei digibase kit bottles could be better sealed, but i do not think the developer needs nitrogen protection since there are no bottle containing the active working developer. The ingredients are split up in 4 different parts. I suspect, meaning i am not sure, that they get around the oxidation problem in a way that can be compared to how you can get around the same problem by mixing phenidone in glycol and get extremely long shelf life as long as it is not mixed with water and the activator.

This is a conclusion i make from the poor bottle seals together with the statement of very long shelf life. Normally this would be a contradiction, but i do not think they would jeopardize their reputation, and thus i draw that conclusion. So far it seem to hold up, both my opened concentrates and the working solutions have not shown any deterioration after 4 months in less than ideal storage.

The problem with these developer kits, as i see it, is the lack of deeper information and user experiences. The latter part is understandable since it is a new product, but the former should Rollei be criticized for. This was the reason for me to start this discussion in the first place and i hope that user experiences over time will make up for the lack of deeper information.

That's good to know...if I do end up keeping this kit, I hope it'll be useful.

cbphoto · Sep 12, 2010

hrst said:
Even a very few cases of bad leaking can be quite disastrous for the product, because it's a sign they can't seal the bottles well. This is catastrophic for the developer, because it needs the nitrogen protection from oxidation and as a gas it leaks even more easily than liquids. So, chances are that you may get a dead developer.

I've said this many times before, but I would buy decent products from the real manufacturers.

The good news, as has already been mentioned, is that Formulary is now selling 1L kits of repackaged Kodak chems for $28.95 - same as the Rollei. I hope the Rollei does not have ongoing packaging problems, though. It seems to be a good quality product otherwise. I printed a few of the frames from my first 20-roll run, and they look quite good.

fotch · Sep 12, 2010

cbphoto said:
The good news, as has already been mentioned, is that Formulary is now selling 1L kits of repackaged Kodak chems for $28.95 - same as the Rollei. I hope the Rollei does not have ongoing packaging problems, though. It seems to be a good quality product otherwise. I printed a few of the frames from my first 20-roll run, and they look quite good.

Is anyone using the Formulary Kits? I have not to much discussion on it here or maybe i missed it.

I like the idea that it is the Kodak chemicals that use to be sold in smaller consumer quantities.

cbphoto · Sep 12, 2010

fotch said:
Is anyone using the Formulary Kits? I have not to much discussion on it here or maybe i missed it.

I like the idea that it is the Kodak chemicals that use to be sold in smaller consumer quantities.

Looks like they just added it to their site: http://stores.photoformulary.com/-strse-965/Flexicolor-C-dsh-41-Developer/Detail.bok

railwayman3 · Sep 12, 2010

Hope that this leakage issue is resolved......I've been following this thread with interest with a view to shooting and home-processing more C-41 in the New Year. (Thanks to those taking the time to report their results with the kits.)

The Rollei approach looks ideal for small scale use, and, while I've used the Tetenal kits in the past with no problems, the Rollei version would seem to remove concerns about any possible issues with combined bleach fix. Is the Rollei kit actually made and packaged by Fuji themselves.?....IDK, but one might expect that Fuji have addressed any quality problems if they themselves have full control of the manufacture and packaging?

gmikol · Sep 12, 2010

Formulary C-41

cbphoto said:
Looks like they just added it to their site: http://stores.photoformulary.com/-strse-965/Flexicolor-C-dsh-41-Developer/Detail.bok

I just took a look at this, and I'm a little confused. This item is labeled "C-41 Developer". Is it just the developer, or is it a kit to make 1L of all necessary solutions?

--Greg

Rollei Digibase C-41

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