Rollei ATP 1.1 Film getting whitish/rainbow spots/streaks in development

[Daniel Huiting]

Hi all, I just shot my first roll of Rollei Advanced Tech Pan 1.1 and developed it using their special ATP-DC 2-part developer. I use distilled water in all my chemistry (although I re-use my stop and fixer so maybe that's the problem) but I'm definitely getting spots on my ATP 1.1

The special ATP-DC developer is at 60ml per bottle. (Part A and part B are added to water to make the working solution.) Both bottles + distilled water make about 750ml of working solution, and I need 600ml to develop 1 roll of 120, and the developer is $24.99 a pop, so thats $25 to develop 1 roll.

Sheesh! I would be fine with all that if I wasn't getting black spots! I use tap water to wash for about 10 mins, but I use distilled water with Hypo Clear before and after.

Any idea how I can get ATP 1.1. with no spots? Maybe use new stop and new fixer each time? And not wash with tap water in between my first and final hypo clear washes?

The spots/streaks look like water marks from using a film squeegee. I remember reading somewhere that this film/developer in particular has to have super clean water and more dilute fixer and wetting agent than usual.

See attached picture.

Also, this film says it's ISO 32 but I'm pretty sure it's closer to ISO 16. All my shots at ISO 32 were at least a stop or more underexposed.

Any help would be appreciated. Thanks!

P.S. I am using Silverfast and shooting 6x17 negs on a Fuji G617. I can't find any presets in Silverfast for ATP 1.1 or 6x17. Any help with this would also be appreciated.

thanks!

View attachment 163504

 

[shutterfinger]

Reused fixer will deposit residual silver back onto film from previous fixing sessions. Pouring the fixer through a coffee filter after each use as it goes back into the storage bottle or filtering it just before using will reduce/eliminate the residual silver being deposited onto the film. The redeposited silver is so small that you will need to enlarge to 16x20 to see it in a print. It will show up on scans also.
Another possibility is pin holes caused by air bells clinging to film during processing.
Photoflo in either tap water or distilled water should be your last step. I use a Pur water filter to filter the tap water and it works as well as distilled water.

You did not state whether the black spots are on the film or the scan/print. White or clear film base on film=black in print/scan; black on film =white on the print/scan.
Check the film with a 8 to 10 power loupe to see which you have.

 

[Daniel Huiting]

Hi, @shutterfinger , sorry I just added a scan of the photo if you want to see. You were right, the streaks/spots are white. (They are black on the neg.)

This is just so strange because I successfully process my own film all the time with no spots/streaks/problems. But something about this Rollei ATP 1.1 and ATP-DC developer combo is throwing me for a loop. I've never seen so much crud and crap on a neg in my life.

 

[shutterfinger]

When I looked at the image online I thought backing paper bleed through so I saved it to my computer and opened it in PS and at 200% it becomes apparent there is a secondary exposure. There is a Pickett fence in the trees at the top left that continues into the upper story of the house. I cannot determine what the detail is for the secondary exposure in the side of the car, model's legs, and grass next to the curb.
Bad scan, bad film, bleed through from another frame, double exposure???

 

[Larry the sailor]

I was thinking the same thing but looking longer it almost looks like marks and smears from some kind of roller. I'm seeing the same kind of evenly spaced "track marks" in the defect in the lower part of the image.

 

[MartinP]

It would, as always, be more helpful to see a photo of the negative. However, it could be something as simple as dirty chemicals and worn-out fixer. You are filtering the stop-bath and fixer before each use? If not, then that would be a good idea.

The fixer and stop which you used previously can be dumped, to eliminate one variable in your next film development, and in the future filter them directly before re-use. With this film, re-fix in fresh fixer, as the 'pale' areas in the scan could be slight traces of remaining silver-halide emulsion in the film.

"Wash with tap water in between my first and final hypo clear washes" is rather unclear. Why use hypo-clear with film, it achieves nothing. In any case, hypo-clear should not be a final wash under any circumstances, including for paper. The product is usually used only for fibre-based paper where it changes the fixer by-products in the paper base in to a more soluble form, for easier washing ie. hypo-clear before washing. The C41 film process does use a stabiliser as the last step, but that has absolutely nothing to do with the development of your roll of film.

A final rinse of distilled-water (with or without a weak wetting-agent), giving a few minutes for the tap-water in the gelatine to be replaced by the distilled-water, will reduce drying marks considerably but most of the strange artifacts in/on your neg don't appear to be drying marks.

Edit: It would also be a good idea to move this topic in to the "(there was a url link here which no longer exists)" forum, as the question is not really anything to do with the camera type.

 

[Daniel Huiting]

Thanks all, my process for washing is not "hypo clear" sorry that was a typo. After fixer I use 16 oz distilled water with 1 drop of LFN wetting agent, and then "agitate" gently for 2 mins, dump that out, then let the tap water run on the reels in the Paterson tank for 10 mins, dump that out, then put another wash of 1 drop LFN in 16oz distilled water as a final rinse.

@MartinP , I have not been filtering the stop or fixer before each use, but I will start now! Just pour them back into the bottle through a coffee filter then?

@shutterfinger As for the "double exposure picket fence idea" that's impossible, it is not a double exposure. Those marks are from my film squeegee chugging along the film and creating lines like that.

Thanks for the advice everyone! I'm hoping new stop and fixer will be the answer.

I'm happy to move the topic if you guys think I should. How do I go about moving it?

 

[shutterfinger]

I use a funnel with a coffee filter in it and pour the fixer through it when pouring back into the storage bottle and have no silver buildup in the storage bottle or spots on the film.
Throw the squeegee away. The wetting agent should be adequate to get the film to dry water spot free. I always give the reels a vigorous shake before unrolling the film. I use PhotoFlo, 2 to 4 ml per 16 ounce tank depending on the water quality.

 

[MartinP]

After fixer I use 16 oz distilled water with 1 drop of LFN wetting agent, and then "agitate" gently for 2 mins, dump that out, then let the tap water run on the reels in the Paterson tank for 10 mins, dump that out, then put another wash of 1 drop LFN in 16oz distilled water as a final rinse.

I'm curious why you don't just follow standard practice????

Using distilled water before washing the film? What do you wish to achieve by this?

Not washing the film in an archival way. Why? There is not much exchange of water at the bottom of the tank using a tap splashing in to the top. A hose in the tank-core or, using less water, washing with multiple water-changes and inversions are both efficient methods.

"Just pour them back into the bottle through a coffee filter then?" No. You describe filtering after use. Filter the stop and fixer before use, going from the bottle to the graduate, so any crud in the storage-bottle doesn't get in to your film-tank.

"Those marks are from my film squeegee chugging along the film and creating lines like that." Presumably this is what you want, in order to create a lo-fi vibe to the negs? It seems contradictory to use an expensive and tricky-to-use film, then to damage the negs irreversibly. If you process the negs cleanly then sandwich the neg, emulsion-to-emulsion, with a 'distressed' piece of film you can print the image looking 'rough', as well as printing it alone to look pristine.

"How do I go about moving it?" I think moving a thread can only be done by a mod. You can request that by using the report button in your original post. If it is in the forum dealing with film-development then more people will probably see it.

The Fuji wide is a dramatically interesting format. Good luck

 

[Daniel Huiting]

@shutterfinger Thanks for the tips! I'll try the filter system and the Photoflo (I already have some of that)
@MartinP What is standard practice for you? I just made up my own because no one showed me, based on information I gathered on the internet. Feel free to expound on the best way to wash film rolls in the Paterson tank after fixing, according to you. Not sure what you're talking about with "lo-fi," I'm not going for anything like that. I just used the squeegee and it seemed to be catching a bit on the way down, and that's my guess as to what made the streak marks.

Also, @MartinP Between the four question marks and underlined words I felt like I was being scolded for a second there! But with the smiley face and "Good Luck" at the end it seems like maybe you do actually care, and want me to learn/take better pics etc... not just to show your prowess/knowledge by scolding a newbie who is asking questions, has some things to learn still, etc. So thanks for that

And re: squeegee, I'm happy to get rid of it. Enough people have told me not to use it, so I'll stop.

 

[shutterfinger]

If starting with a used container with used fixer or fresh fixer filter before pouring in to fix the film.
If starting with a fresh container that has never had fixer in it and fresh fixer then filtering after fixing the film is sufficient to prevent residual silver build up in the fresh fixer and storage container.

 

[MartinP]

I was wondering why you don't just follow the simple instructions of the film producer -- but then, after a short google, I found that they (Rollei/ O.Mahn / Maco) have apparently not produced any detailed information for either the film or the developer. This is unhelpful, especially for such difficult-to-use, non-standard products as this particular film and developer.

Quite likely, you were not aware that black-and-white materials are pretty generic, ie. they do not each require a significantly different manner of processing. Therefore I suggest following the general instructions from IlfordPhoto, here. This will make it less likely that you are trying to solve non-existent problems by guessing, or by reading random internet articles often written (though you wouldn't know of course) by teenagers who have developed two rolls of film based on something they heard from another child.

May I respectfully suggest that you start with a normal film and developer, for familiarisation purposes? As you are in the US(?) probably TMax100 or 400 would be easy to find and can be developed in ordinary cheap developer, giving a simple process and reliable results. (As an aside, the unusual specialist developer you mentioned is just under half that price over here!)

Washing film in plastic tanks can be accomplished by following the tank-manufacturers instructions (a hose in the centre-core of the tank) or by multiple refill-and-inversion cycles (as suggested by Ilford, among others). If you have tap-water at the same temperature as your processing temperature then the hose system is ok (apart from using a lot of water) otherwise mix a jug or bucket of tap-water to the right temperature and refill from that for washing, emptying down the drain not back in to the bucket of course. The whole processing and washing sequence should be at the same temperature, give or take a degree or two, so as to be certain to avoid slight (or extreme) but noticeable changes to the gelatine with wide temperature changes.

 

[Peter Schrager]

I'm in total agreement with martin..why are you spending $25 to develop film...there are so many flavors to choose from. ..the rollei products are reconfigured aerial or reconnaissance films and my personal feeling is they are a scam on the public at large
overpriced and hard to work with...I've done thousands of rolls and more thousands of sheet film...all kodak or ilford...never ever had defects or problems. ..
Go with what works and report back...wish you good light! !

 

[Daniel Huiting]

@MartinP and @Peter Schrager I shoot all kinds of film, Tmax and Tri-X, Ilford, etc and develop them with no problem. I just thought some photos I had seen with this ATP film looked interesting so I decided to try it. For fun. And I came to this forum seeking advice from people who had hopefully used this particular film. And whether or not I want to spend $25 to develop film or not is my prerogative and not at all the question here. It's irrelevant. I asked about the streaks. Thank you @shutterfinger for addressing that and offering some tips.

 

[georg16nik]

Daniel,
There are some good tips above.
ATP is pretty high resolving film - all kinds of impurities will be present at the end, so care must be taken.
Make sure your camera is not dusty inside and your dev tank, spirals are clean.
Use distilled water for all steps or at least filtered water, filter your fixer and make sure you mix it with distilled water.

btw:ATP works great in Caffenol @ ~ EI 25.