Rollei 6008 batteries again...

Discussion in 'Medium Format Cameras and Accessories' started by film_man, Feb 17, 2018.

  1. film_man

    film_man Member

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    Hi,

    So I got the battery from my 6008i recelled to NiMh. I charged it when I got it using an RC charger, got 4 rolls with it. I charged it again, got 3 rolls with it. It seems to work fine, I load a film, switch on, says BC FULL then half way through the roll the meter starts overexposing massively, shutter/aperture is all over the place and if I manage a shot or two it just says CHARGE. I assume the battery voltage just goes really low so that is why it is acting up. I tried charging with the Rollei charger as well and then all I got is a roll and a half before it died and now the other charger shows it is charged after 15 minutes.

    Anyone have any such experience? My guess is that either the recell was done badly and/or the Rollei charger overcharged it and is now junk.

    In other news, there's a guy on ebay selling LiOn rebuilds, anyone tried it? I'm seriously tempted as at least that's modern battery tech with a tiny charger.

    Just frustrated with this, I love the camera but this battery sh!t is really annoying. I had a 6003 a couple of years back briefly and that worked perfectly with a NiMH recelled battery.

    Sigh...
     
  2. wiltw

    wiltw Subscriber

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    Trying to use what was a NiCd charger on NiMH batteries can have these effects (although both have same voltage)

    "Many of the older NiCd chargers are the simple timed type charger which will charge batteries for a fixed amount of time and then shut off. Unfortunately, since NiCd batteries have a much lower capacity than NiMH batteries, the timer is likely to shut off long before the NiMH batteries are fully charged. This won't harm the batteries, but the NiMH batteries won't be fully charged since the timer will have stopped the charge cycle too soon.

    Also common among older NiCd chargers are the so called "overnight" chargers which charge batteries at a low rate as long as the charger is plugged in. This type of charger can fully charge NiMH batteries, but it might take a very long time to do so. It's possible that an old NiCd charger could take as long as 48 hours to fully charge new high capacity NiMH batteries! This type of charger is not likely to damage NiMH batteries unless the batteries are left in the charger for weeks at a time, but it may not be very convenient to use. If you have this type of charger you can get an idea of how long you'll need to charge your batteries by using the calculator found above.

    The final possibility is that the older NiCd charger is a rapid charger that will charge NiMH batteries but will not have the necessary circuitry to stop the charge cycle once the NiMH batteries are fully charged. If the NiCd charger is designed to charge batteries in less than two hours it may be this type. In this case the risk is that the older charger will overcharge NiMH batteries. This will be apparent if the batteries get very hot during the charge cycle. (It is normal for NiMH batteries to get warm as they become fully charged, especially in a rapid charger). If the NiMH batteries get too hot to handle and stay that way for more than 20 or 30 minutes, then the NiCd charger is most likely overcharging the NiMH batteries and may shorten their life. You would be most likely to encounter this type of charger if the charger was designed for rapid charging radio control (RC) vehicle batteries. We would recommend that you not use an NiCD rapid charger to charge NiMH batteries."
    I believe that and RC charger is a fast charger, so I would not routinely use that to charge your NiMH batteries...heat destroys batteries.
     
  3. ic-racer

    ic-racer Member

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    Rollei Lipo1small.jpg I charged the 3-cell LiPo in my battery case back in early December. I still have not done 800 exposures. The battery still reads FULL CHARGE via the camera. I was out in the cold the other day and it performed well. I anticipate I'll only have to charge it a few time a year.
     
  4. OP
    OP
    film_man

    film_man Member

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    Hmmm..thanks, the RC charger is a generic NiMh charger, it should do just fine in theory. The Rollei is the old G type which I've found somewhere saying it is not compatible...in any case given this is the 4th or 5th time I've charged that battery I find it hard to believe either charger killed them and it was probably a crap conversion. Oh well, I don't want to try again though, this afternoon I used the NiMH charger and it kept showing full after 15 minutes. I'd leave it for a minute or two then start it again. After 5-6 cycles over two hours (probably an hour's worth of charge in theory) the battery still reads empty when I put it in. So I'm writing it off as I don't want it to catch fire. Interestingly there was some weird faint clicking from the battery while charging...got pretty hot in the end.
     
  5. OP
    OP
    film_man

    film_man Member

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    Ok cool, I contacted that dude and bought one, he claims 200 exposures min, if I get that much I'll be happy. I got a new battery from him, if it works I will send my dead one for conversion, in theory that'll get me 30 rolls minimum between the two batteries so I could go on a trip without even carrying a charger.
     
  6. John Will

    John Will Member

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    NiCAD vs. NiMH Batteries:
    I would suggest that the 6008, which has more sophisticated electronics, has a higher current draw than earlier models. Therefore NiCAD would be the better choice. I have both a 6006 mod 1 and 6008 pro. I have rebuilt all 3 of my batteries with new NiCADs and they work equally well in both cameras. I don't go through very many rolls of film so have never run out of battery power, but monthly discharge each battery, leave for 24 hours and then fully recharge again, thus destroying any 'memory effect'. Fortunately I have a battery discharger/analyser from my old R/C buggy days which makes this procedure automatic.
    Also remember there are 8 cells in each battery pack and the pack is only as good as its weakest cell. One bad cell can severely degrade the battery performance.

    The following taken from an article discussing the pros and cons.
    (quote) "NiCad and NiMH are two very different types of batteries. Both types must be handled differently from one another in regards to charging and discharging procedures and philosophies.
    In general, NiMH batteries cannot handle the high rate of charges or discharges that NiCad batteries can. Many people use high rate, peak detection or time-based chargers to charge NiCad batteries. Such chargers are NOT recommended for NiMH batteries (unless otherwise specified in the charger or battery literature) as they can cause permanent damage to the NiMH cells. Also, NiMH batteries will not perform well in high rate discharge applications, typically providing only a small fraction of the rated capacity in these instances.
    NiMH batteries also have approximately twice the self-discharge rate of NiCad batteries when in an used state. NiMH battery can discharge itself nearly twice as quickly as a NiCad battery, typically within one week. Therefore, you must charge your NiMH batteries the night before each use.
    When handled correctly though, NiMH batteries can be very beneficial, providing much longer run times than comparably sized and weighted NiCad batteries" (unquote).

    However I also think that LiPo replacement is a good idea, having all the benefits of NiCAD's high discharge rate and NiMH's longer run time with no memory effect and very slow self discharge. I just have all the equipment to keep NiCAD's at their optimum.
     
  7. GarageBoy

    GarageBoy Member

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    Careful, the guy on eBay does not sell the battery with a proper charger. You get a decent 3d printed battery holder, and 3 nice 14500 batteries and a 12v power supply. I ended up taking out the 14500s and charging them externally, but this may cause wear on the tiny wires. Looking to see how to hook up a hobby charger to the 2.5mm plug
     
  8. OP
    OP
    film_man

    film_man Member

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  9. FiatluX

    FiatluX Member

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    My "cheapo" solution was to change the NiCADs to 1600 NiMHs and purchase a Tenergy charger. It worked perfectly!
     

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  10. ic-racer

    ic-racer Member

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    I have seen the 3 cell lipo in post #3 for less than $10.

    That gives roughly the same number of exposures as the disposable lithium batteries for my Nikons, at 1/2 the price. I suppose one could just throw it out, rather than recharging it 1000 times, if one so desired.
     
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2018
  11. OP
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    film_man

    film_man Member

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    Yes that's the charger I got when I changed mine to NiMhs but here it is dead now... hmmm..
     
  12. OP
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    film_man

    film_man Member

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    Ok so it arrived, charging it. Let's see if it works. If it doesn't, well I'll just throw the whole damn thing out of the window.
     
  13. OP
    OP
    film_man

    film_man Member

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    Right so I think my camera is dead, it doesn't really like that battery either, dead after two rolls and that was with some drama (random shutter speeds, 0 on the aperture display showing up etc). Grumble grumble...yet again a medium format camera gives me grief, maybe I should just stick to 35mm. Let's see what the service people will say...
     
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2018
  14. Malcolm Stewart

    Malcolm Stewart Subscriber

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    I feel your pain.
    I gave up on my Rollei 6006 ~ ten years ago for similar reasons, but I also had problems with the electric contacts in the film holder device. I even tried with a large capacity external battery from the model car world (of the correct voltage), and then I discovered that the film insert was causing trouble. Ten years on, and the lens has started to seize up. My much larger collection of 35mm cameras has been largely reliable.
     
  15. OP
    OP
    film_man

    film_man Member

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    Funny how out of maybe 30 35mm cameras I have bought none have ever needed repairs while probably half the medium format ones had issues. So this one looks like some issue with the power, I managed to try two batteries, they all die after a roll so must be something with power regulation or drain. So annoying, this is such a nice camera. Oh well...
     
  16. ic-racer

    ic-racer Member

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    This was not repaired under warranty?
     
  17. JWMster

    JWMster Subscriber

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    film_man: Ditto to feeling your pain. EXACTLY as my SLX2 failed. And the eBay advertised replacement batteries and charger were completely bogus in my experience, too. IC-RACER and I have documented on a separate thread ( https://www.photrio.com/forum/threads/the-power-of-volts-and-milliamps.105128/ ) sources for parts and how to rebuild the batteries with LIPO drone batteries. Since completing that 20 minute project, I have run over 20 rolls through my SLX2 and 6008 using the same battery without a recharge. The result is that I ended up finding the Rollei SLR's such nice cameras I have upgraded to the 6008 Integral. I now have 2 rebuilt batteries and 1 I have yet to rebuild that seems to work with the NiCad/Nimh, but I will rebuild that soon enough. There are some other issues that may arise, but I've simply taken to numbering all the gear (backs, inserts, etc) so that I can debug and winnow out what seems to have reliability problems and what works great. The 6000 series's is a very well engineered camera, and the effort to build reliability into the user's gear should pay off in a real shooter's camera. There's a lot of gear out there as folks seem to lose patience with it... which I can understand, btw. But if you can get through that, then the rewards start making it worthwhile. I just shot 7 rolls this weekend. Lots of fun. Looking forward to developing to see what I've got.

    Good luck! Have fun, and don't be afraid to contact Eric at Rolleiflex USA to ask for help, gear, or where to get a CLA ( he uses a USA guy for that btw, but also lists folks in Germany who will do the work ).
     
  18. GarageBoy

    GarageBoy Member

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    That one maybe fine, but when you buy his lithium ion pack - the "charger" is just a power supply - lithium ion is way more sensitive than that and the last thing you want is a mini bomb
     
  19. JWMster

    JWMster Subscriber

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    film-man: If you have a Rollei battery case, FWIW if you want a reliable rebuild and feel up to the small effort ic-racer and I documented, Hobby King (which was the source of the parts used) is currently having a sale. See: https://hobbyking.com
     
  20. FiatluX

    FiatluX Member

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    I feel your loss too :sad:
    I sold mine a couple of years ago, had nothing but trouble with the film inserts, they just wouldn´t wind the film properly.. :mad:

    Pity actually, I really liked the lenses particularly the Schneider Tele-Xenar 150mm!
     
  21. Martin Rickards

    Martin Rickards Member

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  22. JWMster

    JWMster Subscriber

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    FiatluX: Yes, there is that. While I'm not sure I've got the answer, I've taped numbers to every film back and every insert, and if one begins to trouble me, I deep six it. I think the tolerances in these are probably too tight, and so the failure rate seems to be higher than it should. But as you say, the lenses are great and the camera works very nicely - when it does. I remain optimistic about the system, but time will tell.
     
  23. Arthurwg

    Arthurwg Subscriber

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    I had an excellent 6008 kit, bought new, but sold it because it just seemed too complex and fragile. Couldn't be better as a design, but I sold it in favor of the 500 series Hasselblad, which have no electronics, work well and are easily repaired when necessary. The 200 Series Hasselblads, which also looked great on paper, are also plagued by various problems. Try to get one of those fixed.
     
  24. Eric Rose

    Eric Rose Subscriber

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    I will have to check into this lipo solution.
     
  25. ic-racer

    ic-racer Member

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    My lipo is still charged from winter when I put it in the 6000 battery case.
     
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