Rollei 400 Infrared questions

[Sirius Glass]

If you combine a 25A filter and a polarizer, you still get a lot of deep red/IR effect. And you will likely be able to compose through the finder.

Try it. It’s a look I’m (also) very fond of.
A hint of Woods effect and dark skies. But less contrast.

You entirely miss the point that a polarizer does not bring out the Wood effect.

When using wide optics, be aware of corner vignetting when stacking filters... I avoid it by using the PL with a red gel filter.

I agree with Andrew, use a R29 or R72 instead.

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

I wish I could find my deep red PL filter. I think I lost it when I came home from Japan.

 

[Helge]

You entirely miss the point that a polarizer does not bring out the Wood effect.



I agree with Andrew, use a R29 or R72 instead.

Did what I wrote imply that?
In fact it’s not entirely true. Some “variable IR” employ a pol and 29 filter to (badly) approximate a variable IR filter. And it works sort of.
Any filter attenuated will tend towards its cutoff.
What you get with a 25A and a polarizer is the very beginning of Woods. AKA slight brightening of chlorophyll.

 

[Sirius Glass]

Did what I wrote imply that?
In fact it’s not entirely true. Some “variable IR” employ a pol and 29 filter to (badly) approximate a variable IR filter. And it works sort of.
Any filter attenuated will tend towards its cutoff.
What you get with a 25A and a polarizer is the very beginning of Woods. AKA slight brightening of chlorophyll.

"sort of" is like "faken it, but not maken it" which does not work for sex or photography.

 

[Helge]

"sort of" is like "faken it, but not maken it" which does not work for sex or photography.

Tell that to the Adox people, selling red gels as IR filters.
But it’s a look. And it’s nice. But real IR it’s not. That happens above 700nm.

 

[John Wiegerink]

When using wide optics, be aware of corner vignetting when stacking filters... I avoid it by using the PL with a red gel filter.

Yes, I have problems with that when using my Hasselblad SWC and the 45mm for my Pentax 6X7. A polarizing filter is about as thick as I can go on either camera. I'm going out this afternoon and take some shots of an old coal tower used for steam locomotives. I'll use my Hasselblad SWC and the 500C for the test. I'll try to post the results either tonight or tomorrow sometime.

 

[Sirius Glass]

Tell that to the Adox people, selling red gels as IR filters.
But it’s a look. And it’s nice. But real IR it’s not. That happens above 700nm.

Now you see my point, it is not real IR.

 

[Sirius Glass]

Yes, I have problems with that when using my Hasselblad SWC and the 45mm for my Pentax 6X7. A polarizing filter is about as thick as I can go on either camera. I'm going out this afternoon and take some shots of an old coal tower used for steam locomotives. I'll use my Hasselblad SWC and the 500C for the test. I'll try to post the results either tonight or tomorrow sometime.

Using a polarizing filter on a very wide angle lens can cause varying darknesses in the sky, which is why I have learned to be very careful with them and have grown to not use them if I can avoid them.

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

Using a polarizing filter on a very wide angle lens can cause varying darknesses in the sky, which is why I have learned to be very careful with them and have grown to not use them if I can avoid them.

Quite frankly, I've only ever really used a PL filter to reduce glare/reflections on windows, water, etc... As you say, when the sky is in the image, especially a very large chunk of the sky, you have to watch out for an uneven rendering of tone.

 

[Helge]

Now you see my point, it is not real IR.

So what?

 

[Helge]

Quite frankly, I've only ever really used a PL filter to reduce glare/reflections on windows, water, etc... As you say, when the sky is in the image, especially a very large chunk of the sky, you have to watch out for an uneven rendering of tone.

Wouldn’t worry too much about that. That can be a look too.
Sometimes the sky is very gradated with IR alone. And that is a look people don’t complain about.
Some of it is more blue and some is more white.

There is a ring of polarization that traverse with the sun over the day.
At noon in the summer it’s about evenly polarized, though not very strongly, all around the horizon.
The effect is stronger on film than in the finder or looking through the filter.
In the early hours or in the afternoon there is a dark, wide fuzzy band running over the sky, seen through the filter.

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

Well of course it doesn't matter, if that is what you want. If you don't want it, one must be aware and cautious. A PL filter can exaggerate it, which often I find annoying, especially with wide optics.

 

[Sirius Glass]

So what?

Why waste IR film for non IR photography?
Why waste color film, especially larger formats on a monochromatic scene when there are great black & white films available?
... and then post comments on the high cost of film?

 

[Helge]

Why waste IR film for non IR photography?
Why waste color film, especially larger formats on a monochromatic scene when there are great black & white films available?
... and then post comments on the high cost of film?

Because this is not strictly IR film. This is Aviphot. Meant for filtering in a variety of ways. Hence no slump in the curve at green to before 700.

The two other things you mention I have never participated in.

 

[Helge]

Well of course it doesn't matter, if that is what you want. If you don't want it, one must be aware and cautious. A PL filter can exaggerate it, which often I find annoying, especially with wide optics.

It’s just often put forward as an absolutely catastrophic thing to avoid at all cost.
I for one think it looks quite cool.

 

[John Wiegerink]

I personally love a good polarizing filter, and it's probably one of my most used filters after a UV filter, since it can be used for both color and B&W. Getting an even toned sky requires shooting in a certain direction at certain times of the day. Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't. Living in Michigan I get to soot around water often and a polarizer makes a world of difference it surface water's rendering. The only thing I don't like about a polarizing filter is sacrificing all those stops just to cut glare.
My shooting of the old coal tower was postponed due to a downpour of 3/4" of rain and lingering clouds when that letup. We'll see how it goes tomorrow morning. If your lawn or garden is drying up, all you have to do is plan on going out and taking some pictures. Seems to work every time for me.
I ended up buying a Urth R72 IR filter off the big auction site, since I'll get it quicker than if I wait until I go back home to get my Hoya. JohnW

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

I personally love a good polarizing filter, and it's probably one of my most used filters after a UV filter, since it can be used for both color and B&W. Getting an even toned sky requires shooting in a certain direction at certain times of the day. Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't. Living in Michigan I get to soot around water often and a polarizer makes a world of difference it surface water's rendering. The only thing I don't like about a polarizing filter is sacrificing all those stops just to cut glare.
My shooting of the old coal tower was postponed due to a downpour of 3/4" of rain and lingering clouds when that letup. We'll see how it goes tomorrow morning. If your lawn or garden is drying up, all you have to do is plan on going out and taking some pictures. Seems to work every time for me.
I ended up buying a Urth R72 IR filter off the big auction site, since I'll get it quicker than if I wait until I go back home to get my Hoya. JohnW

Great minds think alike! I ordered same filter and should be arriving this week.

 

[John Wiegerink]

Great minds think alike! I ordered same filter and should be arriving this week.

Andy,
Whoa, that’s spooky. Hope we will both be happy with the purchase. Great minds? Yours maybe, but mine is questionable. Still raining here and I just checked my trusty rain gauge and we’re now at 1.5 inches. Hopefully it stops by morning so I can get out and shoot the Rollei IR 400. If not I’ll stay in and repair a few cameras that have been waiting very patiently.

 

[GLS]

Rollei 400 and Ilford SFX and similar near IR films = no need to re-focus.

I disagree with this as a general statement. I once shot an entire roll of IR400 on the Hasselblad with an R72 filter whilst forgetting to compensate using the IR index, and the focus was *very* noticeably off in all the frames. Results from the same camera after performing the focus adjustment are consistently perfect. Granted, if he's going to be shooting at f22+ it will probably be unnecessary, but at wider apertures it will make a difference.

 

[John Wiegerink]

I disagree with this as a general statement. I once shot an entire roll of IR400 on the Hasselblad with an R72 filter whilst forgetting to compensate using the IR index, and the focus was *very* noticeably off in all the frames. Results from the same camera after performing the focus adjustment are consistently perfect. Granted, if he's going to be shooting at f22+ it will probably be unnecessary, but at wider apertures it will make a difference.

I'll keep that in mind for tomorrow. My R72 filter is due in tomorrow afternoon, and I decided to wait for it before I did my test. My Hasselblad is loaded and ready to go.

 

[Dali]

If the R72 filter is the equivalent of the Wratten 89B, then I would rate Rollei IR 400 film @ ISO 6 and bracket +/- 1/2 stop.

I use a Mamiya C camera so no IR setting on the lenses. I close the aperture below F11 and never had trouble with unsharp negatives.

 

[Sirius Glass]

If the R72 filter is the equivalent of the Wratten 89B, then I would rate Rollei IR 400 film @ ISO 6 and bracket +/- 1/2 stop.

I use a Mamiya C camera so no IR setting on the lenses. I close the aperture below F11 and never had trouble with unsharp negatives.

I meter at ISO 400 and then open up 5 f/stops. Then if more shadow detail is needed use the Zone System to get the shadow detail. This is a more accurate way to meter and if necessary from experience adjust the number of stops.