Rodinal

[Curt]

While I was not looking it disappeared for good. Some time ago I heard that it was in danger of going away so I bought a case, it continued to be offered so I relaxed, when I wasn't looking it wasn't listed anymore. I called Freestyle this morning and talked to a certified person who told me indeed Rodinal was history, gone, not to return.

I was told that two R09 formulations were available and they were similar to the original. So, good bye Agfa Rodinal. It's probably out there some where hanging out with Kodak Panatomic-X and Agfa Pan 25 in a far away place.

 

[Ken Nadvornick]

So, good bye Agfa Rodinal.

Good bye, yes. But only to that name.

Now replaced by the exact same thing under the new name ADOX Adonal, and available now at Freestyle here.

Ken

 

[Casey Kidwell]

Adox Adonal is currently in stock at Freestyle (finally), also Compard R09 one-shot is supposed to be the exact same formula.

 

[brian steinberger]

Wow, I had no idea Agfa Rodinal was gone. I see it's still available on Freestyle's website though.

 

[MattKing]

And in Canada it is:

Blazinal!

But half the time the labels seem to say Rodinal.

 

[Dennis S]

The claim is Blazinal is the same but from what I found it is NOT. I used to do stand developing with Rodinal with no problems but I tried it with Blazinal and it was very uneven developing . So now I just do semi-stand (1 agitation every 20 minutes) and works fairly good.

 

[AgX]

The Agfa processing chemistries plant that produced Rodinal had been sold twice since the insolvency of the shortlived Agfaphoto production entity. However that plant is producing Rodinal on order, which then is sold under various names by the purchasers.

Furthermore there is another german plant, an offspring of Orwo, that is producing an equivalent under the tradename R09.

 

[Ken Nadvornick]

The Agfa processing chemistries plant that produced Rodinal had been sold twice since the insolvency of the shortlived Agfaphoto production entity. However that plant is producing Rodinal on order, which then is sold under various names by the purchasers.

Furthermore there is another german plant, an offspring of Orwo, that is producing an equivalent under the tradename R09.

Yes, the brand name situation is unfortunately all very confusing. I highlighted the ADOX brand and Freestyle since the OP (Curt) lives near me and ground shipping is conveniently available from that source. (And as an APUG partner Freestyle always deserves a first mention.)

But I really would hate losing the time-honored name Rodinal. Are the legal issues such that no one will be able to continue using it?

Ken

 

[AgX]

But I really would hate losing the time-honored name Rodinal. Are the legal issues such that no one will be able to continue using it?

Some people prefer not paying for licences for using that tradename, so they use another name.


(Apug partner Fotoimpex still offers it under the name Rodinal. As well as under their own tradename. Though the Rodinal branded packaging is from a earlier stage of that chemistries plant when they still had a chemistries range of their own licensed by Agfa)

 

[patrickjames]

Jesus Curt, you almost gave me a heart attack......

 

[Curt]

Jesus Curt, you almost gave me a heart attack......

Yes I know, I rarely call a supplier to see what's going on with a product, it would have to be of major importance to me, and though I have a case plus a half bottle and I'm good for now thoughts of a 'similar' replacement in the future is not pleasant.

 

[Curt]

http://www.adox.de/english/

It took a bit to find it but it's here on this site.

News: Rodinal is back

The last bottles of originally branded Rodinal are leaving our warehouse these days.
But don´t panic, the Rodinal recipes survived the AgfaPhoto desaster and the same people as before are brewing a soup for you which treats your films 100% identically as the content of a bottle which says Rodinal on the outside.
Thus ADONAL is not identical with our APH09 which is based on the original recipes from Wolfen.

I do appreciate the "don't panic" statement, it shows that someone out there cares about the oldest film developer, 1880's. It would be my guess that the last bottles of the originally branded Rodinal that now have left the warehouse are gone after talking to Freestyle.

Curt

 

[RobertV]

CMS has overtaken the (ex Agfa) chemical plant in Vaihingen-Enz. They are producing Rodinal according the same Agfa receipt.
It's called R09 one shot in most places in Europe. Even Foma is taking from the same factory now: Fomadon R09 NEW. 1+25 - 1+50 - 1+100 are the regular dilutions. Rodinal/ R09 one shot is the oldest commercial developer since 1891.

No reason at all to panic that these chemicals will disappear.

Best regards,

Robert

 

[WRSchmalfuss]

ADONAL is original RODINAL, since 2010!

R 09 One Shot from Compard/Germany, is original RODINAL, since 2006!

BLAZINAL is original RODINAL, produced and packed in Germany, since 2008!

R09 from FOMA, is different!

R09 from CALBE, is different!

+++

 

[marco.taje]

Jesus Curt, you almost gave me a heart attack......

+1 here! LOL

 

[Ian Grant]

Unfortunately Agfa own the Rodinal trade name, but not in the US or Canada. For legal reasons the developer can no longer be sold as Rodinal and as Agfa have no interest in the product they aren't going to take action to regain their trade name in the US.

The owner of a former APUG sponsor J&C registered the Rodinal trade name in the US and deliberately tried to pass off Orwo/Calbe RO9 as Rodinal, going as far as relabeling in packaging mimicking Agfa's, the company has since ceased trading. Because of these issues Agfa could not transfer the trade names to the off shoot company who continued making chemistry as there were potential legal disputes over them and AGFA could have been liable.

Ian

 

[AgX]

Ian,

Not Agfa but Agfaphoto in insolvency is the holder of the tradename Rodinal in Germany.

(The story is actually even more complex with the tradename's history.)

 

[Ian Grant]

AgX, the actual ownership is academic because the trade names are compromised so can't be licensed sold or transferred. One would have to say this is a poisonous legacy left by John of J&C, the effect is that Rodinal is now sold with a variety of names, along with some other former Agfa chemistry.

Ian

 

[Removed Account2]

The King is dead, long live the King!

There will always be Rodinal, it might be a case of a new name for each generation but the true bloodline remains...

 

[cmacd123]

It is needed for the buyer to be careful.

The plot is even more complicated as the original product was caught up in WWII ! The Old AGFA plant in Wolfen Germany from before the war was taken over by the DDR, and Called ORWO- ORiginal WOfen. They made a version of rodinal, sometimes in Soviet times called R09. The Chemical works now offer products as "Calbie".

In the mean time AGFA Set up shop in west germany and made some tweeks to the Formula over the years. That is the Rodinal that we in the west are used to seeing. While it was a Agfa-Gevaert product there was no confusion, you just looked for AGFA on the label. The old R09 Formula would have an east block name like ORWO, Foma etc. Now After the Rights were sold to a group that it seems wanted mostly the land under the main agfa photo factory.... there is all sorts of confusion. -- as mentioned the West German formula is sold by Foma and others as R09NEW. :munch:

One hint is that the western version often specifies use at 1+25 and 1+50 while the estern version mentions 1+40 !

 

[AgX]

Ian,

Not Agfa but Agfaphoto in insolvency is the holder of the tradename Rodinal in Germany.

(The story is actually even more complex with the tradename's history.)

EDIT:
It seems that the tradename is not part of that AgfaPhoto entity in insolvency but went over to the AgfaPhoto Holding.

 

[piu58]

The old pre war formula of Rodinal used technical aminophenole which is deep brown. Agfa uses clean chemicals, fresh Rodinal is nearly clear. Orwo produced Rodinal under a new name R09, because the rights of the Rodinal brand was selled to Agfa Leverkusen. R09 was produced in "Chemiewerk Calbe" (chemical plant Calbe). Calbe is a town at the river Saale.
The Rodinal we used in the last decades was stronger than the pre war formulation and therewith stronger than R09. The standard dilution for Rodinal is 1+50, but it was 1+40 for R09. In the last years R09 was made stronger to have the dilution identical. This is R09New. Same pre war formula, same deep brown aminophenole but dilution like Rodinal.
I checked Rodinal against R09. I found only a very small difference in negtive density which may result from having not totally identical concentration. I saw no other difference (APX 100).

 

[RobertV]

Agfa DDR (OrWo) changed their name in 1964 when Agfa (Leverkusen) merged Gevaert (Belgium). ORWO (ORginal WOlfen) were paid in a lot of DM to do this.

The trade mark Rodinal seems to be difficult now. So in that way it's renamed to R09 one shot in most countries.

There are some differences in the R09 Calbe (former ORWO chemical plant, indeed town Calbe on the river Saale) and Rodinal (Agfa chemical plant Vaihingen-Enz).

Foma (Cz) had their chemicals from Calbe (DDR) in the past. In the end of the 90's they also merged Foton (Bydgoskie Zakłady Fotochemiczne FOTON) a Polish photochemical factory. W is a shortening from Polish word "wywoływacz" (developer), and especially the W27 Excel is known as Xtol (Kodak) copy.

Since two years Foma made a change to Rodinal too, sold under R09 NEW (Fomadon) in different type 250ml bottles. However to all problems in licence, name of Rodinal they are maybe forced to go back to the R09 Calbe version. So for end users it will be difficult to determine what is in the bottle.

Here some examples of Rodinal and R09 (Calbe/old Fomadon R09). Test film: Rollei Retro 100 / APX 100 (production Agfa Photo 2005).

Also a comparision of old Rodinal (Agfa - 2003) and Rodinal A&O, 4 years later.

Rodinal 1+25 - Retro 100, 1/3 of a 35mm negative.

R09 1+20 - Retro 100, 1/3 of a 35mm negative.

Rodinal (new). Rodinal 1+25 - Retro 100.

Rodinal (4 years old). Rodinal 1+25 - Retro 100.

You can see that R09 produces a tick more of grain in combination of the reference film, APX 100 (new) - Retro 100.
You can also see there is not much differences in new or older Rodinal. When it's really new it's clear and a bit Yellow. When it's 4-5 years old it's dark Brown, almost Black. There will be also some solid crystals on the bottom. Not a problem if they are not going into your developing tank.

Rodinal (from 1891) is a very interesting developer, almost magic and suitable in a lot of different concentrations for different type films. Somewhere in the 70's Agfa changed from glass to HD-Polyethylene (Silar) plastic bottles. Well known are the 125ml and 500ml packings. In the near future Maco (Rollei brand) will also offer a 300ml softpack R09 one shot Rodinal version.

Best regards,

Robert

 

[Curt]

Excellent presentation Robert, I took a look at your flicker photos too, some really nice work over there. I just came out of the darkroom after developing a roll of 120 Adox 25 Art in Rodinal, the Agfa Rodinal from last year. When I was in college I tried all the developers I could lay my hands on and films too. There wasn't a film that I hadn't exposed, Freestyle had Adox and Orwo films, I used Ilford and Kodak also, my favorite combination was Panatomic X in Rodinal 1:75, now days I prefer Rollei Pan 25 with Rodinal. This has been a long journey of discovery, the more one practices the more one learns. Who now days is willing to take one camera, editorial here, one lens and expose one film, develop in one developer for two or three years?

My wish would be to have Rodinal available in 1000ml dark brown glass bottles. The last case I bought had plastic bottles, which are fine but I prefer the feel and look of glass. So for those reading this, some of the best materials do not always come from the usual big name companies. There was a time when one company had a strangle hold on the industry, it took some time to come to terms with this, yet some fine materials have been in production for a really long time though out this period.

 

[Ian Grant]

The RO9 name for Rodinal is just the Agfa pre- & post WWII formula number in their Receptes books, because Orwo & Agfa share the same origin up to the end of WWII both are R09 today. No RO9 formula has not been published by Agfa or Orwo/Calbe, but as far back as 1910 the next formula R10 was also a p-Aminophenol (paramidophenol) Hydrochloride developer, Rodinal has always used the free base.

The major difference between the Orwo/Calbe RO9 and the last Agfa version of Rodinal is Agfa dropped the level of developing agent (p-aminophenol) and increased the pH significantly to compensate. The Calbe version has no free Hydroxide while the later Agfa version now sold under various names does.

To further confuse matters the overall concentrations of the packaged Orwo/Calbe RO9 and Rodinal used to differ but this was reflected in their recommended dilutions, and more recently Calbe has increased the concentration of their RO9 to bering both version into line.

Ian