Rodinal exhaustion?

[Andrew O'Neill]

There are some X-Tol equivalents in Darkroom Cookbook the you brew yourself. I would think they might be cheap alternatives.

I've mixed up Mytol, which was fun to work with. Time for a revisit...

 

[MattKing]

I guess I would have to get into replenishing, then. I'll consider it when I've depleted my Pyrocat-HD chemicals...which won't be for a few years!

Replenishment makes so much sense for people who shoot large format, because the film requires a minimum quantity of developer that is so much less than what the tanks or, in some cases, trays require to develop that film.
For those who only shoot 35mm, those two minimum quantities are more similar.
Of course, Andrew knows this well, but others may not realize it.

 

[blockend]

Time for some experiments (and spending) me thinks.

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

Replenishment makes so much sense for people who shoot large format, because the film requires a minimum quantity of developer that is so much less than what the tanks or, in some cases, trays require to develop that film.
For those who only shoot 35mm, those two minimum quantities are more similar.
Of course, Andrew knows this well, but others may not realize it.

I'll have to pick your brains on your replenishing methods...

 

[MattKing]

I'll have to pick your brains on your replenishing methods...

Happy to help.

 

[Deleted member 88956]

I had a roll of Ilford come out completely blank out of a 2 year old bottle of Rodinal, i was not amused

Very, very doubtful it was Rodinal that did that, irrespective of formula.

 

[David Lyga]

In truth I fancy a change from Rodinal, so if anyone can recommend a suitable black and white developer for 100 ASA film that doesn't cost the earth, I'd be most grateful. There's a 30 metre tin of FP4 waiting in the fridge when the Fomapan runs out.

This will not 'cost the earth'.

I do think that you would be rather enthralled with Dekol (about 1 + 24) for your 100 speed film. The times are quite normal, but do clip tests depending upon your wanted temperature. Arguably it is not a very 'sexy' developer but works hard to make magnificent negatives. Mix the stock just before use. Dektol is the most underrated film developer and, at these dilutions, costs little to use. - David Lyga

 

[David Lyga]

David, the old rodinal you tried is different from most/all of the stuff sold today. The formulation has changed and varies across brands.

Why do we keep getting told that it is absolutely, really, truly, honestly, the same stuff??? - David Lyga

 

[ADOX Fotoimpex]

The 5 hour approximation was purely theoretical, I don't think there's much to be gained beyond 90 minutes as Rodinal gives up the ghost even at homeopathic dilutions of 1:200+. I can see how a modest addition of water to your stock wouldn't go amiss, the chemistry is largely water anyway (presumably?)

In truth I fancy a change from Rodinal, so if anyone can recommend a suitable black and white developer for 100 ASA film that doesn't cost the earth, I'd be most grateful. There's a 30 metre tin of FP4 waiting in the fridge when the Fomapan runs out.

You started this thread with the statement: "My current bottle is about 6 years old and 3/4 empty".

The Rodinal still worked but it was halfway dead. If you are looking for any liquid concentrated developer which can beat this performance you are on a hopeless quest. The problem here is that people expect the impossible. Since this was just a testfilm I hope the loss is acceptable. Please no one shall expect from any liquid concentrate that it lasts opened and half empty for 6 years. It won´t. David´s Rodinal was not better in composition, it was packaed in a glass bottle and unopened (David correct me if I´m wrong). The sulfite was probably still there 50%. Halfway used and in a plastic bottle this will not be the case :-(
Since this comes up every now and then we published a whitepaper on the topic about three years ago. Next to this I do not recall if we used our improved oxygen barrier bottles 6 years ago already. If you look on the bottom does it say PE-HD? The last version bottles (not PE-HD) in combination with pressing the oxygen out of the bottle will keep your Rodinal longer than any other developer in the world sold today in plastic bottles. Still I would only buy as much as I can use within 3 years. I think this level of replenishment cycle is acceptable for a customer.

 

[ADOX Fotoimpex]

Why do we keep getting told that it is absolutely, really, truly, honestly, the same stuff??? - David Lyga

Koraks did not say this. He said the formulation varied over the years. With us you could buy for over 20 years two versions of Rodinal and we never made a secret out of the fact that the one (R09/APH09) which is the GDR/ORWO version was based on the 1940ies recipes and the other (Rodinal) is the West-German version based on the "last Agfa Leverkusen recipe".
We abandoned the R09 recipe type because we could not keep the price spread to RODINAL up and the later is way more popular.

 

[David Lyga]

Fotoimpex:
Your reply is a masterful replay of both sagacity and proper manners. I am with you, entirely. However, have you ever stored developer (yes, even C-41 and RA4) in PET plastic bottles? Honestly, they store like in glass and I would NOT hesitate to keep the Rodinal concentrate in that FOREVER. That is testament to how much I trust both that type of bottle and your wonderful product. Your Rodinal makes film come alive tonally and acutance-wise. I use other developers but I love yours. Yes, the old bottle I had was glass, but had been opened as only about half was in the bottle. I am old enough (69) to remember these bottles with the rubber top!!

Maybe you cannot relate information on this but I am telling you that it works: My 'mild' dilution of 10X for long term storage does work. Do you dispute this or tell others not to attempt this? If you do, I will ascribe that precaution to company mandate for insurance purposes, not from actual experience. My 10X dilution works to allow tiny working solution amounts for doing clip tests.

In summation: Rodinal tells the truth and covers up nothing truthful. - David Lyga

 

[blockend]

I do think that you would be rather enthralled with Dekol (about 1 + 24) for your 100 speed film.

Thank you David, I used Dektol at college back in the mid-1970s. I can remember nothing of the process but my earliest negatives have stood the test of time, which is remarkable as I hadn't a clue what I was doing. Dektol is on my shopping list.

You started this thread with the statement: "My current bottle is about 6 years old and 3/4 empty". The Rodinal still worked but it was halfway dead.

I won't forsake Rodinal entirely, I've used it consistently for the last ten years and periodically for thirty years previously. Rodinal is one of those products that attracts hyperbole about its shelf life, and the temptation is to keep it going. I now know the facts. It was just a test film so no harm done.

 

[ADOX Fotoimpex]

Fotoimpex:
Your reply is a masterful replay of both sagacity and proper manners. I am with you, entirely. However, have you ever stored developer (yes, even C-41 and RA4) in PET plastic bottles? Honestly, they store like in glass and I would NOT hesitate to keep the Rodinal concentrate in that FOREVER. That is testament to how much I trust both that type of bottle and your wonderful product. Your Rodinal makes film come alive tonally and acutance-wise. I use other developers but I love yours. Yes, the old bottle I had was glass, but had been opened as only about half was in the bottle. I am old enough (69) to remember these bottles with the rubber top!!

Maybe you cannot relate information on this but I am telling you that it works: My 'mild' dilution of 10X for long term storage does work. Do you dispute this or tell others not to attempt this? If you do, I will ascribe that precaution to company mandate for insurance purposes, not from actual experience. My 10X dilution works to allow tiny working solution amounts for doing clip tests.

In summation: Rodinal tells the truth and covers up nothing truthful. - David Lyga

Than you David. If you follow the link I gave above to our whitepaper you can see that we agree with you. PET and our new type bottles are very good plastics if you fill them up entirely. Blockend probably had the old bottle PE-HD type and it was not filled up. I am not trying to talk anyone into glass botles. I just want them not to make mistakes and ruin any film. Bad expiriences like this will have a negative impact on analog film as a whole.

 

[David Lyga]

Thank you David, I used Dektol at college back in the mid-1970s. I can remember nothing of the process but my earliest negatives have stood the test of time, which is remarkable as I hadn't a clue what I was doing. Dektol is on my shopping list.

I won't forsake Rodinal entirely, I've used it consistently for the last ten years and periodically for thirty years previously. Rodinal is one of those products that attracts hyperbole about its shelf life, and the temptation is to keep it going. I now know the facts. It was just a test film so no harm done.

Just be able to vary the dilution, pro or con. Do what works best for you at the time you want and the temp you want (I use 80F ambient for all). Do clip tests; no need to waste rolls of film. - David Lyga