Rodinal and R09. Similarities and differences

jandc · Nov 3, 2005

titrisol said:
Interesting, R09 is more concentrated according to that.

No, it's just where I would start from in doing a side by side comparison. I find that R09 at 1:40 works for me like Rodinal at 1:25. Others may want to compare at 1:50. The point is that once you're dialed in the results are essentially the same.

Fotohuis · Nov 3, 2005

Foma data: http://www.foma.cz/Upload/foma/prilohy/Lazne_filmy_en.pdf

Compared with Agfa Rodinal (last chemical modified in 1992), we pick up an example from our data: Fomapan 100 and Rodinal 1+50
our optimum: 7:30 min.

Fomadon R09 (Foma): 1+40 : 6:00 - 7:00 Min.

Small changes, but not drastically differences.

best regards,

Robert

Lee L · Nov 3, 2005

R09 vs Rodinal stock concentration

I did a quick test for myself, reported here, (there was a url link here which no longer exists)
but haven't had time to follow up with further tests.

Roman (rjr) here on APUG will tell you that Rodinal is more highly concentrated, and the Rodinal 1:50 is about equivalent to R09 at 1:40. He has some connections to Agfa personnel. I think the most useful of those discussions is here: (there was a url link here which no longer exists)

My test says they're not that far apart at the 1:100 dilution I normally use, and that Rodinal is slightly more active than R09 at 1:100.

Lee

Fotohuis · Nov 3, 2005

Dear Robert,
thank you for your mails.

To your questions:
Fomadon R09 product we have in our production line still. We can deliver it and in case it will be changed we will inform you.
.............................................................................

With regards
Dana Hojná

E-mail traffic from 26th October 2005 due to all Agfa Photo troubles.....

So do not panic at all

............ and still over 100 bottles Agfa Photo Rodinal to go

Soeren · Nov 3, 2005

titrisol said:
Interesting, R09 is more concentrated according to that.

Nope.
The recomended times for Efke25 in R09 vs Rodinal are
R09 1:40 6min
Rodinal 1:50 4,5 min
according to FotoImpex (JandC) devchart. Of cource YMMW
So the stock R09 is more "dilute" than stock Rodinal
Regards Søren

jandc · Nov 3, 2005

Soeren said:
Nope.
The recomended times for Efke25 in R09 vs Rodinal are
R09 1:40 6min
Rodinal 1:50 4,5 min
according to FotoImpex (JandC) devchart. Of cource YMMW
So the stock R09 is more "dilute" than stock Rodinal
Regards Søren

Our chart indicates Rodinal 1:50 with Efke 25 at 8 minutes 1:25 is 4 minutes. R09 at 1:40 for 6 minutes.

Sorry if I was unclear 4 posts ago when I said:

"No, it's just where I would start from in doing a side by side comparison"

to the statement:

"Interesting, R09 is more concentrated according to that."

Christian Kolinski · Nov 3, 2005

jandc said:
I just love the cryptic dramatic answers to simple questions. If you don't like R09 than don't buy it. But putting out this garbage is a disservice to everyone.

Not to "put out garbage" as you said, here some differences:

Rodinal is bottled under inert gas atmosphere, wich means it doesn't start ageing (e.g.: change color) till you open it.

R09 is pitch black bought new.

Second: at least one batch of the bottels used for R09 dissolved themselve and haven't been fully air-tight, speeding up ageing of R09. Some where really bad quality, cracking open at the seam near the cap rather easy.

That's a simple reason why Rodinal is said to last longer than R09: Less contact with oxygen means longer shelf life. When Rodinal is stored unopend theres _no_ oxygen to react with. While there is enough to turn R09 black.

See my point?

Christian

Soeren · Nov 3, 2005

jandc said:
Our chart indicates Rodinal 1:50 with Efke 25 at 8 minutes 1:25 is 4 minutes. R09 at 1:40 for 6 minutes.

"Interesting, R09 is more concentrated according to that."

Are you sure those times are correct ?
It's double the time recomended for Rodinal on your german site.
You have to fight Mirko about that though, not me
Søren

titrisol · Nov 3, 2005

So if R09 came filled to the brim or packed under CO2/N2 would it last longer?

jandc · Nov 3, 2005

Soeren said:
Are you sure those times are correct ?
It's double the time recomended for Rodinal on your german site.
You have to fight Mirko about that though, not me
Søren

Well as luck has it I'm in Berlin visiting with Mirko today. So we'll have to discuss this.

Fotohuis · Nov 3, 2005

ml versus gallon, celcius versus fahrenheit, impex versus jandc, rodinal versus R09

Strange world.............

Soeren · Nov 3, 2005

Fotohuis said:
ml versus gallon, celcius versus fahrenheit, impex versus jandc, rodinal versus R09

Strange world.............

Hmm, could it be celcius versus fahrenheit
Søren

jandc · Nov 3, 2005

titrisol said:
So if R09 came filled to the brim or packed under CO2/N2 would it last longer?

Could be, but I'm not worried about it's ability to last close to forever. I've used the stuff for several years now and it lasts a long time even in half filled bottles. I love the deep shade of brownish black that it gets when it's fully aged.

Soeren · Nov 3, 2005

Just like fine vine

Lee L · Nov 3, 2005

Soeren said:
Hmm, could it be celcius versus fahrenheit
Søren

My 13 year old son said yesterday that he'd like the weather forecasts in Kelvin.

Lee

Christian Kolinski · Nov 3, 2005

titrisol said:
So if R09 came filled to the brim or packed under CO2/N2 would it last longer?

Yes, although this discussion is on a "20 vs. 40 years of shelf life" level. Rodinal/R09 needs a really, really long time till it's unusable. I just opened an 8 year old bottle of Rodinal - its sill clear with that typical pink cast of metol.

Christian

modafoto · Nov 3, 2005

Lee L said:
My 13 year old son said yesterday that he'd like the weather forecasts in Kelvin.

Lee

"The weather in Denmark is good. the temperature is between +283 and +288 degrees"

Fotohuis · Nov 3, 2005

I have to refill my car (Diesel) How many gallons I have to throw in?? 16 or so ??

Maybe enough to reach Arhus , how many miles???

jandc · Nov 3, 2005

Soeren said:
Are you sure those times are correct ?
It's double the time recomended for Rodinal on your german site.
You have to fight Mirko about that though, not me
Søren

I just spoke to Mirko and he agrees that the time he listed was too short to achieve full film speed. The 4.5 minute time yields about EI 12-20. So he is revising his to agree with our 8 minute number. Of course with Efke 25 it is best to err on the side of under development so that the contrast doesn't get out of hand.

Soeren · Nov 3, 2005

jandc said:
I just spoke to Mirko and he agrees that the time he listed was too short to achieve full film speed. The 4.5 minute time yields about EI 12-20. So he is revising his to agree with our 8 minute number. Of course with Efke 25 it is best to err on the side of under development so that the contrast doesn't get out of hand.

So thats why my first testfilm turned out just right :rolleyes:
I stand corrected regarding strenght.
Regards Søren

modafoto · Nov 3, 2005

jandc said:
I just spoke to Mirko and he agrees that the time he listed was too short to achieve full film speed. The 4.5 minute time yields about EI 12-20. So he is revising his to agree with our 8 minute number. Of course with Efke 25 it is best to err on the side of under development so that the contrast doesn't get out of hand.

The difference is because the germans use(d) DIN values and the Amoricans use(d) ASA.

Fotohuis · Nov 3, 2005

Bye the way, do you agree Neofin Blue/AM50 is a better option for the Efke (single layer) films than the use of Rodinal/R09??

Robert

( Wow, Ole on the testcorner now! )

Soeren · Nov 3, 2005

modafoto said:
The difference is because the germans use(d) DIN values and the Amoricans use(d) ASA.

But that should be the other way round to make sence shouldn't it :confused:

modafoto · Nov 3, 2005

Soeren said:
But that should be the other way round to make sence shouldn't it :confused:

Yes...but they are german...they don't know

Keith Tapscott. · Nov 3, 2005

jandc said:
No, the dilutions and times are different than for Rodinal. You need to test at the recommended dilution and time for each developer. Obviously if you dilute R09 to the Rodinal dilution and time you will not get the same results. Just as if you dilute Rodinal at the R09 dilutions and times you will not get optimum results.

I haven`t seen any clear instructions at all for R 09 other than Calbe suggesting to dilute 1:40 as standard along with other dilutions. I can`t find any starting point developing times hence my suggestion for using as if it were regular Rodinal and then making adjustments to times and dilutions as necessary. You have to start some where and find what works best through trial and error. If you know of any recommended developing times for popular film brands, then please divulge your information.
Rodinal`s not my stuff but there are many who do like it.

Rodinal and R09. Similarities and differences

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