Rodinal and Eye Damage
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If you are so concerned, wear glasses in the dark room. I would think a person would have to be extremely careless to get a splash in the face. I don't ever recall even one time getting developer(or any other chem) anywhere near my face in the over 50 years in the dark room. YMMV.
Well i guess that if you get the concentrate into your eye it could do damage it yeah. Diluted however i think you have plenty of time to wash it out before it does substantive damage. If you are really worried, i think you can buy bottles of buffer solution online that are used in labs to clean eyes in case of splashes. google on something like "eye wash solution" or "eye wash bottle". They are pretty expensive, but with luck you wont have to replace it
Having taught chemistry labs I can say that unusual mishaps do happen. In one case a student got a drop or two of hot 6M sodium hydroxide in his eye. Due to prompt attention he suffered no permanent damage. I might add that the accident was caused by the student not following directions.
The way that data is collected on accidents probably preclude specific mention of Rodinal. You might see keywords like "corrosive liquid" or something similar being used in a database but I seriously doubt the use of a keyword like Rodinal. In other words the concept of searchability comes into play. The information may be there in a database but there is no way to extract it.
The way that data is collected on accidents probably preclude specific mention of Rodinal. You might see keywords like "corrosive liquid" or something similar being used in a database but I seriously doubt the use of a keyword like Rodinal. In other words the concept of searchability comes into play. The information may be there in a database but there is no way to extract it.
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Just one of the documents: http://www.schc.org/assets/docs/ghs_info_sheets/schc_ghs_fs5_eye_damage_irritation.v3.pdf ph 11.5 is the limit for 'irreversible effects on the eye'
pH of Rodinal is 14 and it doesn't matter much if it's diluted or not (still 11 at 1+100)
pH of Rodinal is 14 and it doesn't matter much if it's diluted or not (still 11 at 1+100)
The problem with the cited article is that it does not describe the testing methods. Is the irritant left in the eye or is it washed out in a defined time period. This seriously reduces the article's usefulness.
The poster makes an error in believing that pH is the only criterion that is important. One must also consider duration of contact, buffer capacity, ... . At one time the medical condition hypochlorhydria was treated by the ingestion of hydrochloric acid. Even though the solution's pH was very low the actual amount used was insufficient to cause damage.
In addition paper developers like Kodak Dektol (D-72) would have a pH of ~12 and also pose a danger. So the problem cited in the OP extends beyond Rodinal.
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Same here although eye protection is probably a good idea.
A much better document, see chapter 3.1.3.3.:http://www.inchem.org/documents/sids/sids/POTASSIUMHYD.pdf
Thanks for the heads up Miha. Even folks who have studied chemistry are not immune to accidents. Using PPE, or personal protective equipment is key. Plan for worst case scenario situations because this stuff is not Johnson and Johnson's no-tear shampoo. Download the MSDS. Get your geek on.
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Rodinal does not contain potassium hydroxide. The hydroxide reacts with the paraminophenol to form a phenolate salt. The pH is high but not that of a pure KOH solution.
One should not be afraid of chemicals but rather respect them. This is an important difference.
I agree completely. Used to work with percloric and nitric acids while destructing organic material for chemical analysis using atomic absorption, properly protected of course.
The thing is that rodinal is perceived as the most benign photo chemical which it certainly isn't.
The original formula had no free hydroxide, this is the version still made by Calbe, but the 1964 revised AGFA version contains less developing agent and free Hydroxide.
The OP's question though is one of those typically alarmist posts we get very occasionally here on APUG. Sodium Hydroxide is sold as drain cleaner and is a lot more dangerous than Rodinal, as are many other household chemicals.
Ian
No, not OK. I ran a laboratory for a number of years and we had to have a full COSHH assessment (EU regulations) in place covering all chemicals and equipment in use as well as regular independent testing of fume extraction. I wrote the assessment report, we used Hydroxides, sulphuric, nitric, hydrochloric and hydrofluoric acids, cyanide solutions etc. .
So like Gerald I'm in a better position to comment. Rodinal contains 2.7% free Potassium Hydroxide, read what Gerald has said about one of his students. Yes we should take care with all photo chemicals but there are far more dangerous and hazardous chemicals used in photography and in every household, that's why I'm saying you're being alarmist.
Ian
The big advantage we have as analog photographers is that there is usually running water available where we handle chemicals. Getting splashed with Rodinal/Dektol/whatever on top of a mountain with two hours walk to the next source of running water would be much more dangerous and cause much more long term damage.
In order to make good use of that water faucet in case we need it, we need to be aware of the dangers of the stuff we use, and we need to be mentally prepared to apply suitable counter measures in case of a spill/splash/accident/whatever.
In order to make good use of that water faucet in case we need it, we need to be aware of the dangers of the stuff we use, and we need to be mentally prepared to apply suitable counter measures in case of a spill/splash/accident/whatever.
I like your tone better now (now I'm patronising, I know). Ian, the thing is I see a lot of teenagers getting into film development and rodinal is one of the developers that is recomended to them sooner or later. It's cheap, it lasts but it's also highly caustic and therefore dangerous if mishandeled (which is easy, read posts about people asking how to mix d76).
And saying that you are in a better position to comment on something is pretentious as you have no knowledge of my qulaifications.
And saying that you are in a better position to comment on something is pretentious as you have no knowledge of my qulaifications.
If you have the relevant experience/qualifications you'll be fully aware that Rodinal is a lot safer than Sodium Hydroxide sold as drain cleaner, many hydroxide based oven cleaning compounds etc.
It doesn't matter what chemicals are used in a darkroom the user should take the necessary safety precautions recommended by the manufacturer, they are obliged to provide the information, that's usually gloves and eye protection when making up solutions.
There's also reality, how often do you get splashes in the eye when washing up, making tea or coffee, pouring a drink, things you do routinely on a daily basis. Diluting developer from a small bottle is no different. I added small because it's harder pouring cleanly from a 5 litre container.
Ian
The human body has many built in safety mechanisms. In the case of the eye, when motion toward it is detected, the eyes will reflexively close. This reduces the chance of damage.
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I fully support and encourage everyone to use proper safety procedures and personal protective equipment, no exception.
I do though think it's important to keep things in perspective.
A teen, actually everyone, is more likely to hurt them self driving a car or maintaining a pool or working the grill at a fast food joint, than when working with Rodinal.
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