Ritz Camera files Chapter 11

accozzaglia · Mar 8, 2009

This is what National Camera Exchange in the Twin Cities used to offer as a value-added service.

Moopheus said:
Do you have an organized way to help people along, like with instructional advice or classes? Last year, for example, my mother bought a new Mac laptop. She's one of the least technically sophisticated people I know, but when she got the new computer, Apple offered weekly in-store training sessions (for a nominal additional fee, of course), and they were very helpful to her in getting used to basic tasks like using the mail program and the browser. It's true that Apple has buckets of cash and a high-margin product, but they wouldn't do it if it didn't make money for them somehow. I wonder if you couldn't offer something like that to people who bought cameras, even if you had to charge a little extra for it--customers liking their cameras better and coming into the store regularly may buy more stuff for them. And it's certainly something that bottom-feeder retailers and online shops wouldn't do.

Monophoto · Apr 3, 2009

The Today show just announced that Ritz Camera is going out of business and the liquidation sales start tomorrow, Saturday, 4 April.

removed account4 · Apr 3, 2009

from what i understand not all stores are being closed
about 400+ are going, and about 300 are staying ...
the 3 here in ri where i am, are closing ...

archphoto · Apr 3, 2009

Times have changed and if you can not keep up with the pace you are doomed.
If your sales-people have no clue what they are selling, the customers leave in irritation and don't come back.

Yesteryear is gone and one is all to happy to find a store that knows what they are selling and are willing to help you.

Shure I am buying online, most of the time because I can not get it localy or online is 40% or more cheaper.

Ritz is gone, so what ? The next big-box-mover will take their place and get lost in the future.
Some will survive, hopefully....... like smaller stores that care..... and that is to our benifit !

Peter

BobNewYork · Apr 3, 2009

I think there'll be very few stores left with knowledgeable staff providing true service. Online stores don't have the investment in staff or bricks and mortar and hence their margins can be lower. If people are to make a living "best price" and "best, most knowledgeable service" are virtually mutually exclusive. Once price becomes the basic determinant it implies lower profit margins and requires higher volumes which itself means reduced costs and service if one is to pay the bills.

Some niches will remain. For example APUGgers don't expect an 11x14 print from a custom lab at the same price as a chain drugstore. That is not true of the majority of the population. However, as people have gravitated to these drugstores, pro-lab volumes have declined. The overheads of the labs, however, are fixed - so the labs must accept declining income or raise prices to maintain their living standards - thereby becoming less price-competitive.

I had a small store and studio and my favorite part was sharing my knowledge, trading "war-stories" and helping people develop their skills. As time went on, however, I found people buying their film in the big-box stores - and asking me to load their cameras; spending hours discussing which camera to buy, buying it online and asking me to show them how to use it. I had one customer tell me that he wanted to buy a camera from me but I would have to match the online price. He wanted to buy from me because I gave a free one hour lesson with purchase. When I told him the online price was less than my cost - but I gave lessons at $50 per hour - he was highly offended and stormed out!

I closed down once I realized I was working 7 days a week purely for the landlord. If I'd wanted that I'd have sent my resume to the landlord!! I'd developed a few commercial photography clients which I kept - and developed more. Without the overhead and the need to be at the store 7 days a week I realized I should have made that decision years ago.

As you can tell I have a great affinity for the small guy. If I take up a store's time discussing or looking at equipment - I buy from them, however much cheaper I could buy online. That may mean that I buy less than I otherwise would but I think it's the right thing to do. If I intend to buy online I will not take up the store's time and thereby use their resources without recompense.

Bob H

TA-Reiland · Apr 3, 2009

There's a small independent photo shop in the town where I work. It's a block from the university campus. I think his prices on film and chemicals are bordering on outrageous. Do I buy from him? Absolutely! I want him to stay in business. I'm in there almost every week. Besides, he's a good guy and has a wealth of photo knowledge which he shares willingly. All I have to do is ask. We have two Ritz stores in the area, too. I haven't been in either one of those in years.

TR

dr5chrome · Apr 3, 2009

Ritz has caused a huge problem with supply in the market place.
They owe nikon 49 million, canon 32 million, etc...
They owe Tamarac 19 million. There was word that Tamarac might go out of business because of non-payment of this debt.
There are several other small companies in the same boat as Tamarac.

So, the mis-management of Ritz has done great damage to the industry. It has caused supply shortages, mistrust, no credit for other stores and forced small well established companies out of business.

So this just isn't JUST about RITZ/WOLF. Chapter11 ?? They might as well close, no one will sell to them afterward.

dw

TerryM · Apr 4, 2009

BobNewYork said:
... I had a small store and studio ... I closed down once I realized I was working 7 days a week purely for the landlord. ...

Hi Bob,
Have you tried operating your business from your house? As I had suggested on the Qualex Thread, try setting up a relationship with some Stores in your area where they accept Film for developing / printing for a small fee they collect from their customers, and you can take your fee. You can pickup / deliver once or twice a week, and do your work at your house. This should be a lot more profitable than operating a Store front.
One big problem for photo shops is the expense of keeping up a store front -- especially when it's rented. Renting from a Mall is the worst! I'm not surprised by what's happening to Ritz because this is to be expected from an outfit that focuses on Digital. There's no money in selling electronics like Digital Cameras, and it's essentially impossible to make money printing Digital Pictures. I doubt that the cost of a Digital Printer can ever be recovered from selling Pictures. You can make a higher profit margin on developing and printing Film -- even if volumes are lower. The Digital Picture business isn't worth it.

BobNewYork · Apr 4, 2009

TerryM said:
Hi Bob,
Have you tried operating your business from your house?.....

Hi Terry:
I did take a cursory look at that. The problem is that I could never get town permission for the DEC waste operation. Also, the lower volumes translate into very high chemistry costs with mini lab machines - in addition to the toxic waste disposal costs, (about $150 per 55 gal drum here - you have to develop an awful lot of films just to cover that!) Also, unless you do a daily pick-up service, (and gas is going to go way back up again) your turnaround is 3-5 days - that cuts out the majority who want same day and further reduces volumes. Then you have machine maintenance. A Noritsu tech will take between a half and a full day to diagnose and service - at $110 per hour plus the cost of parts. Again, you have to process a helluva lot of films to just cover that. With the local CVS doing 4x6 prints at 25 cents or less there would still be a huge investment in time and money with very questionable returns.

I absolutely see where you're coming from - maintaining the availability of quality, commercial film processing but the big-box boys have it by the throat for the general public. For example, my local Costco offers 11x14 prints for less than $3.00 pretty much while you wait. It was my understanding that Kodak supplied paper and chemicals to the big chains without charge and levied on a "per print" basis. In concert with the minilab manufacturers who offered free unlimited tech assistance - the small guy was out in the cold.

Like I say, I did consider it but the potential return would be too small and uncertain - plus, doing commercial photography is far more enjoyable and interesting o be honest.

Bob H

tkrause53 · Apr 4, 2009

Here in Salt Lake City Ritz bought out Inkley's some years ago. They kept the Inkley name, however. Over time they went from an advanced-amateur/pro shop to a point and shoot shop. You couldn't find anything serious and decent. I quit going there in favor of a couple of other great camera places in town--and the Internet. It's too bad. Twenty years ago, Inkleys used to be a great place. I'm not sad to see Ritz go, either.

TerryM · Apr 4, 2009

BobNewYork said:
... For example, my local Costco offers 11x14 prints for less than $3.00 pretty much while you wait. It was my understanding that Kodak supplied paper and chemicals to the big chains without charge and levied on a "per print" basis. In concert with the minilab manufacturers who offered free unlimited tech assistance - the small guy was out in the cold. ...

Wow! I can't believe they can offer 11x14 for so cheap. That is an Optical print as opposed to a scan and Digital print? I don't know how Costco makes money off that. I would've thought that each 11x14 sheet would cost over $2 just to buy the paper. It doesn't look like a good deal for Kodak or the Minilab company. I don't know why they would get into such an arrangement. The Minilab charged small guys like you $110/hour to probably subsidize their losses from places like Costco! Does Costco develop 120 for Professionals? Many Pros have a hard time finding a Lab that develops 120 which causes them to drop the Format.

alanrockwood · Apr 4, 2009

Speaking of Salt Lake City, Ritz, in the form of Inkley's, has a store in the nearby suburb of Draper. A couple of years ago I tried to buy some kodachrome there, and the guy behind the counter had no idea what kodachrome was.

BobNewYork · Apr 4, 2009

TerryM said:
..... Does Costco develop 120 for Professionals? Many Pros have a hard time finding a Lab that develops 120 which causes them to drop the Format.

Pretty much all of the film processors will take 120 and 220 film. The printers too require only the addition of a 120 neg carrier, mask set and lens. Although these are hugely expensive and will set you back a few grand. Again, you have to process a lot of film to get just that back. It was reckoned that you needed to process and print 40 - 50 rolls of film per day to break even - excluding overheads. For example, just turning on the machines and bringing them up to temperature probably cost about $25 in electricity alone. You'd have to process four films just to cover the the cost of turning on the machines!

The whole equation changed. Energy prices soared, costs of ecological compliance soared, and volumes and prices both fell. On the other thread about Qualex - Kodak acceded to the big chains and provided the chems and paper at prices and on terms the small guy couldn't get. They created the competition for themselves also - and still offered daily pick up for the more difficult and lower volume activity. Classic problem of individual corporate divisions acting in their own interests without looking at the big picture.

Ritz's demise came about because they didn't fit into any category. They weren't a small, local enthusiast-run outfit and they weren't big enough to attract the volumes necessary. The pressure for ever grater shareholder returns led to the sort of cost-cutting that resulted in a disenchanted staff. It became a spiral. There's no middle ground any more. If you want to earn a living you have to be very high volume-low margin, or low volume-high margin, i.e. custom and specialist. In the middle you end up with low margin and insufficient volume to cover overhead - and earn a living.

Bob H

spark · Apr 5, 2009

I bought an enlarger and my first TLR (a Lubitel!) from Ritz in Carson, California back in 1979 or so. At that time Ritz was a small chain of serious hobbyist level stores, and the Carson shop was in a small strip mall.

The Ritz store near my house now closed last year. They did a fair job on processing but a Safeway with a decent tech right across the parking lot did the same work at half the price. Other than that it was mostly stocked with picture frames and cheap tripods- plus a lot of unused "digital print" stations.

Papa Tango · Apr 19, 2009

spark said:
I bought an enlarger and my first TLR (a Lubitel!) from Ritz in Carson, California back in 1979 or so. At that time Ritz was a small chain of serious hobbyist level stores, and the Carson shop was in a small strip mall.

The Ritz store near my house now closed last year. They did a fair job on processing but a Safeway with a decent tech right across the parking lot did the same work at half the price. Other than that it was mostly stocked with picture frames and cheap tripods- plus a lot of unused "digital print" stations.

I saw them do the same thing (as Wolf) with a small chain of locally owned stores on the west coast of Florida (Nortons Camera) in the 80s. It did not take them many years to run the stores down the hill.

Last week, I darted into one for the first time here in Knoxville. It was exactly as you said--frames, a sparse selection of accessories, and clerks trying to upsell clueless buyers on digitals that were far beyond their needs or abilities. Luckily, all I needed was a good strap for my Yashica 124. I left wondering what they would have thought of the camera the strap was going on...

B&H and others do not need to worry that any more of my money finds its way to Wolf/Ritz.

mgb74 · Apr 19, 2009

TerryM said:
Wow! I can't believe they can offer 11x14 for so cheap. That is an Optical print as opposed to a scan and Digital print? I don't know how Costco makes money off that.

I'm pretty sure it's a scan and digital print.

How can they make money? Because you come in and buy other stuff. (Even though they make it relatively easy to pay for your prints at the photo counter and "run".)

And this in spite of the fact that Costco actually pays and treats their employees better than similar stores.

bob100684 · Apr 20, 2009

mgb74 said:
I'm pretty sure it's a scan and digital print.

How can they make money? Because you come in and buy other stuff. (Even though they make it relatively easy to pay for your prints at the photo counter and "run".)

And this in spite of the fact that Costco actually pays and treats their employees better than similar stores.

Because it is that cheap for them to make. Every lab I've worked in has used fuji papers, and despite being different companies and over the course of several years, the cost per print that was always quoted is 4.5 american cents worth of paper and chemistry are used per 4x6 prints, and 17 cents per 8x10 print. The labs I worked at used frontier 340's and 390's so our max width was 8 inches, but it seems fairly obvious to me, they're still making good profit off of the $3 11x14.

BobNewYork · Apr 20, 2009

mgb74 said:
.........And this in spite of the fact that Costco actually pays and treats their employees better than similar stores.

I don't know what they pay - but thstaff are always friendly and you fin them joking an smiling with each other - a clear sign that they are well treated. I use outfits like that - and for that reason. I bought an Oreck vacuumcleaner after what the company did for their staff after Katrina; and I buy Sargento cheese - after a group of employees who won a BIG lottery said they had no intention of quitting their jobs. Consumers should reward corporate responsibility.

Bob H

bob100684 · Apr 26, 2009

just a heads up you guys. I stopped in at the ritz I used to work at here in Worcester, MA, one of the stores being liquidated....surprisingly they have film cameras there now. There are two N80's with a kit lens I believe, didn't get the price on those, and ready......there are also 2 EOS 1V bodies.....at $1,000 each. B+H has them at $1,699!

mgb74 · Apr 26, 2009

Just be careful with liquidation sales. Often the prices are marked UP before they're marked down. Best to compare with other sources as bob100684 has done.

nyoung · Apr 26, 2009

I posted in the misc. forum last weekend for the Texas area.

Last Sunday there were two N80 QD bodies in the Ritz on Westheimer Rd. in West Houston. The clerk scanned one and it came back $172.

That's close if not identical to the price through Amazon from a third party.

However, the clerk told another browser in the store that the manager might entertain a lower offer on Monday.

bob100684 · Apr 26, 2009

nyoung said:
I posted in the misc. forum last weekend for the Texas area.

Last Sunday there were two N80 QD bodies in the Ritz on Westheimer Rd. in West Houston. The clerk scanned one and it came back $172.

That's close if not identical to the price through Amazon from a third party.

However, the clerk told another browser in the store that the manager might entertain a lower offer on Monday.

yeah, they drop the price by X percent every week until that store is closed. Stopping in was one of the weirdest experiences.....we had an old optical minilab there till last march, and as much as I love shooting film, in a consumer based lab you need the whole kiosk digital solution. We had a great team and were turning the place around until January when several of us were let go for various reasons, availability, fixing small problems on the frontier without contacting fuji first.........."wasting chemicals" while doing the required weekly stab dump/remix(according to the ritz tech ops book). Anyway, apparently that store was within 2-3 stores of being kept open.

bob100684 · May 1, 2009

eos 1's now $950, n80's now $219

mynewromantica · May 4, 2009

The only good thing ritz had going for them was their Warranties. Those things are bulletproof.

jim appleyard · May 7, 2009

mynewromantica said:
The only good thing ritz had going for them was their Warranties. Those things are bulletproof.

True, but the customer had to pay for them (like insurance) and the clerk (I'm sorry, sales associate) shoved the warranty down their throat.

Ritz Camera files Chapter 11

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