Ritz Camera files Chapter 11

archphoto · Feb 24, 2009

@JD: Supermarkets: in Holland we have AH, a kind of Safeway (I am not that familiar with the US) and they have both stores and internet.
Both are doing well.
The situation in Holland is a bit diferent from the US: the dutch like to do their dayly shopping, it is a kind of outing and there is less parking space.......
But on camera's: many stores have gone over the years and internet does it's damage. Digital rules unfortunately......

Peter

david b · Feb 24, 2009

A little while back, I saw a rather expensive lens on ebay. It was listed by a local shop. I emailed and asked if they had a cash price, as I would come in and buy it in person. They wrote back saying I had to buy it through ebay as once an auction has started, they will not end it early. I responded with "what happens if the lens is knocked off a shelf? would you then end the auction?". Their reply was "we assume your cash would be counterfit, so please do not bid on the item". So, instead of taking care of a local customer, they chose to deal with people who will never walk into their store.

keithwms · Feb 24, 2009

I don't see how to compare customer service at all, between a "real" store and a computer-driven online store.

The latter has no way except customer satisfaction surveys (how many of those do you answer?!) to quantify how many people left in frustration, not finding what they wanted.

Yes, I have had poor service at some storefronts too, but at least there is a way to find a solution. Sometimes that solution is stomping out or giving the kid at the counter a lecture on film products but in either case that is more enjoyable to me in the sense that involves human interaction!

All this reliance on online commerce, involving credit cards and massive dossiers of customer information etc. are eventually going to hit us with all manner of security concerns... if they haven't already. I don't think most folks realize just how easy it is to have your credit card and even your whole identity compromised. I've had issues approaching this in the past, incl. with the auction site, and actually there is damn near nothing anybody can do to help you out when it does happen. Cold hard cash has never been more valuable than it is now, IMHO.

archphoto · Feb 24, 2009

Dear Keith, I gave lectures about photographic equipment to sales people 30 years ago in a time when somebody did not know the diference between 135 and 120.......

As for creditcards and ebay or B+H or who ever: I prefer PayPal, this gives the least of information about yourself to the seller.
Just paid for the grip for the RB on sale on THIS forum with it.
Fast and secure for both.

Peter

Silverhead · Feb 24, 2009

I have never had any problems with Ritz. They make great crackers.

chop61 · Feb 24, 2009

I've got a Wolfe camera down the street from me. I have most of my color processing done there and they've always done right by me, reprinting when I know they go a little light or dark. At that particular store I've never had any problems, I'm the "Woman who shoots tons of film." Across town is another matter.

It's still a shame.

thebanana · Feb 24, 2009

BobNewYork said:
True JD - well trained to be poorly paid and inexpert in the products. I've called it "The Ascendancy of the Shareholder" where nothing ele matters but that the shareholder returns are maximized. What ever happened to just making a decent living?!?!

I don't know if those days are ever coming back, but the days of the large shareholder dividend seem to be numbered as well.

As for in store purchases, the only local camera store (part of a chain) got out of analog supplies a few years ago. The closest independent photo store to me is Photo Central in Winnipeg, a 2 hour drive away. I was in and dropped a wad of cash on paper and chems last week.

For hard to get items, it's the Interweb though.

Ira Rush · Feb 24, 2009

Guess I was just lucky

Guess I was just lucky

I too found that prices were somewhat higher and analog item selection was somewhat minimal

But the staff at the two (2) local shops near me were extremely knowledgeable and friendly. In fact in one of those two shops, the manager (who was also a Pro Photographer) and I would often talk Hasselblad and Nikon techno-babble, or darkroom techniques. Some of his other staff, if not busy, would listen in and learn and ask questions.
One of his senior salesman worked years ago at Spiratone (a long, long gone store and mail order outfit) in NYC, and always knew his trade.
When they did not have what I was looking for (yes I admit about 95% of the time), they would give me a list of places to check to see if they had it, or they would order it for me!

Living near NYC and Philly, I have my choice of places to go, (some were actually suggested by that manager!) and of course there is always mail order, so I am not mourning this loss.

But as the days of Mom&Pop/ brick and mortar shops are fading, and fading away fast, its a little sad. its a little sad. Yup, another one bites the dust.

Guess I was just lucky!

bobwysiwyg · Feb 24, 2009

I haven't heard the name Spiratone in ages, but remember them well.

Ira Rush · Feb 24, 2009

Spiratone... boy did I drop a bundle there!

bobwysiwyg said:
I haven't heard the name Spiratone in ages, but remember them well.

Now that was a store.... much of the stuff I bought (some of which are approaching 40 years old.. wow I'm getting old ) still function fine!

That store, IMHO, closed up shop (no pun intended) way before its time.

BobNewYork · Feb 24, 2009

Spiratone - oh yes! It was like a treasure trove - hundreds of accessories no-one else had. I still use some studio clips and small table top silk screened backdrops I got there. I went to the one in Queens - don't know if they had any other locations.

Ira Rush · Feb 24, 2009

It's a Small World after all.... It's a Small ....

BobNewYork said:
Spiratone - oh yes! It was like a treasure trove - hundreds of accessories no-one else had. I still use some studio clips and small table top silk screened backdrops I got there. I went to the one in Queens - don't know if they had any other locations.

Yup... Northern Blvd., Flushing.. just before the bridge.

Went there numerous times. When I was older and was in the city, often went to the one on W.31st right across the street from Willobough-Peerles.

I grew up in Flushing, Linden Towers apts. (across from the bowling ally). Went to Flushing HS, and then Queens College. Spent more time at Spiratone and the Big "A" than in class

Lopaka · Feb 24, 2009

df cardwell said:
And the last time anybody here bought something from a REAL camera shop ?

Well ?

Since Adray closed their store in Troy, I have been a 2-hour round trip from a real camera shop. I have been buying film on-line for several years now, since I have more 120 in my reefer than Adray had in their store. I do go to Cameramart to buy E-6 kits which they have been selling at competitive prices, even when gas was $4 a gallon the gas just slightly less than shipping. If they stop selling that, I will have no reason to go there anymore either.

Bob

FilmIs4Ever · Feb 25, 2009

I guess the question to ask is this: Is it better to have a local store (that almost everyone here unanimously agrees sucked) around, or be stuck with mail order?

Fortunately, the Dodd Camera company here provides exceptional local service, at about the same price, after shipping, as you would pay from B&H.

BobNewYork · Feb 25, 2009

Never know - the local guy may come back if retail space falls enough. Hell if there are farmers markets in NYC - who knows!

FilmIs4Ever · Feb 25, 2009

Well, it really doesn't have to be one or the other. You of all people should know that, Bob. . . you've got the actual B&H superstore to turn to!

BobNewYork · Feb 25, 2009

There's a tale best left unsaid there! But yes, you're right. Spoiled for choice in New York.

Craig · Feb 25, 2009

df cardwell said:
And the last time anybody here bought something from a REAL camera shop ?

Well ?

This morning, I bought a Nikkor 20mm. Their prices are good, the service excellent, so I support them. Even if it was $5 cheaper at Best Buy or wherever, I hate shopping at those sorts of places.

jd callow · Feb 25, 2009

I bought a new body, lighting and assorted odds from a real camera store here in Van and back in Detroit I'd buy my chems from CameraMart (a 20 mile drive) and assorted film, and stuff from CameraMart and Adray's (also a good drive away). I didn't have my prints made or my film developed by anyone but me, which is where the margins where once fat.

I don't know that Ritz went out of their way to hire jerks or even that they had jerks working for them. I do think that Ritz tried to service a market space that was shrinking in size and profitability. I'm saddened to see them do poorly as I think it says more about the market then it does about Ritz. No one wins if they close their doors.

Are we better off today with one Home Depot or many small hardware, tool shops and lumber yards; a mix of butchers, grocers, hardware and pharmacies populating our city centers or one giant super store located off the interstate?

BobNewYork · Feb 25, 2009

I'd vote unequivocally for the mix. What many don't realize is the the big box stores have business models that rely on tax abatements. In the U.S. a big box will petition local government promising to bring x number of jobs to the area in return for tax breaks. What they don't mention is that they drive main street out of business, (lowering the tax receipts still further) and force higher tax rates on all. I just wonder if the higher prices at the local store are really higher after you take all this into account.

bob100684 · Feb 27, 2009

jd callow said:
I don't know that Ritz went out of their way to hire jerks or even that they had jerks working for them. I do think that Ritz tried to service a market space that was shrinking in size and profitability. I'm saddened to see them do poorly as I think it says more about the market then it does about Ritz. No one wins if they close their doors.

From having worked there, I don't think Ritz TRIES to hire jerks, but the way they treat you makes you become a jerk. You're pressured into selling items by their tracking of certain products, generally these products have an SI or sales incentive attached.......now for the good part. Some items don't automatically ring up as on sale, you have to press a button to "blitz" them down to that price. Guess what happens when you give a discount, even if it's hitting the blitz button that automatically lowers it to the correct price......YOU LOSE YOUR SALES INCENTIVE! Also, the company will work you like a dog, then cut your full time status because you don't have completely open availability. For example, right now I'm in college and had been working at a Ritz here 10-20 hours a week, though over breaks I'd pull 40+ hours. This december it was determined I could only work a maximum of 30 hours a week because I was not available from 9-11 one morning each week. The store is open 12 hours a day, so there was still plenty of time to get my 40 hours in, just company policy dictated that I couldn't. Then you have your lab maintenance techs, TSM's. We were a decidedly low volume store, at least compared to others.......our frontier went down, he told us he could be there in 2 weeks to repair it, though he might have to order parts which would take another week. As it turns out it was a simple repair, and a good thing myself and one other employee are decent at figuring things out, no parts needed. The district management is a part of the problem too, I remember struggling to convince our TSM to come sooner, and decided to enlist the help of our district manager. His response was to get incredibly angry we hadn't called the TSM sooner and jump to the conclusion that we somehow offended the TSM to make him wait so long to come in.

BobNewYork · Feb 27, 2009

Yes, unfortunately a common tale - not just Ritz, of course. As always it rolls downhill and when you're on the receiving end of all of it it's difficult to maintain a friendly face! It still goes back to the ascendancy of the shareholder. Used to be that the shareholder returns were the residual of a good, ongoing business which treasured things like customer service, which itself arises out of decently treated staff. I still maintain that the investor returns were ridiculously high in a low inflation environment. They were unsustainable and, as they proved so shareholders put increasing pressure on management to sustain the unsustainable. Guess who got the short end of that stick..................... And we customers wonder why we got less than friendly service !

pauliej · Feb 27, 2009

I think the bottom line is that no matter what you sell (ciggarettes, soap or suppositories) if you can sell it and make a PROFIT, you may be able to stay in business. If you cant SELL, you need to be shopping around for a cheap Chapter 11 (etc) lawyer pretty darn soon. I think General Motors is getting the idea about this, as are many others...

paulie

BobNewYork · Feb 27, 2009

No argument there pauliej. My point is that expected profit levels, (and I'm talking in general here) exceeded sustainability. That prompts management to squeeze people like bob100684 and with unintended results. You can't sustain an overall 10% profit growth in a 2% inflationary environment. I mean we had the ridiculous situation of Calpers becoming activist shareholders demanding cuts in certain corporations' staff benefits - so that California Public retirees could maintain their same level of benefits. No-one seemed to see the dichotomy in that. But point taken - if there's no profit - there's no business.

Bob H

bob100684 · Feb 27, 2009

BobNewYork said:
No argument there pauliej. My point is that expected profit levels, (and I'm talking in general here) exceeded sustainability. That prompts management to squeeze people like bob100684 and with unintended results. You can't sustain an overall 10% profit growth in a 2% inflationary environment. I mean we had the ridiculous situation of Calpers becoming activist shareholders demanding cuts in certain corporations' staff benefits - so that California Public retirees could maintain their same level of benefits. No-one seemed to see the dichotomy in that. But point taken - if there's no profit - there's no business.

Bob H

The problem with Ritz's model was the slightly more expensive goods, but more service. Many of the products I sold were +/- $10 as compared to best buy. However the customer got some free product(though not the $400 worth that the ad claims, it was a $30 photo book, a $5 cd, and 20 prints at 20 cents each) as well as photo classes. When consumers shifted more and more towards big box stores, prices dropped, but only in ways screwing the clerk ie. the "blitz" function. Realistically, they should have maybe dropped prices as well as SOME of the free stuff. Also, if you walk into best buy now, you can get a 1gig SD card for about $10, so what does ritz do, they get 1 gig MICRO sd cards with an adapter for $10.....works the same way, but there's that additional step that consumers mostly don't understand.

Ritz Camera files Chapter 11

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