Ricoh XR-P issue

[Ricardo Daniel]

Hello, I am new in this place. I just buy a used Ricoh XR-P with a Rikenon P 1:2 50mm is a garage sale. I put batteries (new ones) on it and tested.
Everything looks correct except:

I move the advance lever and cock for a new shot
I click and it fires but the mirror stuck and no return
I remove the lens and the mirror return

I tested without the lens and everything looks ok (I cocked and fired several times at all speeds and all is ok)
I do not see any issue in the lens. Nothing looks stuck. I moved the shutter and it moves.

When I return the lens I am able to cock and fire...but again the mirror stuck...I remove the lens and the mirror returned (it does not need to completely remove the lens, only rotating it to free the mirror)

It looks like something in the lens kept the mirror up. I tried moving the focus, the aperture ring and nothing.

Someone has an idea what is happening?

 

[beemermark]

Sounds like an issue with the lens, not the camera.

 

[AgX]

Welcome to Apug !

Basically this issue exists with SLRs. There must be enough distance between the rear lens element and the shutter to place a movable mirror inbetween. This is why some old standard lens designs as the Biotar/Helios-44 are of rather long focal length, or why short focal length lenses need to be of the retrofocus desing.
There were even some short focal lenses extra designed in standard built to be used with a certain SLR with flipped up mirror and accessory finder...



Of course this all does not apply in your case with a short-built dedicated standard lens, even a kit-lens,

But have you looked through the finder?
Is the image fine?
Can you twist-in the lens further beyond the infinity stop?

I ask as some one may have manipulated the lens.

Another reason might be the diphragm lever of the lens. It might be set/stuck in a wrong position and hampering the release operation. But this is a really wild guess without knowing that camera and not really the PK mount.

 

[Ricardo Daniel]

I think so something in the lens, but I could not figure it out.

 

[Ricardo Daniel]

In the first photo I point a lever that move up and down when mirror going up and down

The second points a lever in the lens, that moves the shutter. That lever is not stuck, I could move it easily as shown in photo 3.

I think that something in the lens makes the lever stuck when lens is in camera or the camera level engage something else in the lens and do not return.

 

[Ricardo Daniel]

I made a little experiment: I put the camera in B, so the lever in camera rest high while I kept the shutter bottom pressed, then I install the lens (all the time with shutter botton pressed)..then I release the shutter...
Then I could cycle but mirror remains up.

by the way when mirror is up, viewfinder is black....

 

[Ricardo Daniel]

But have you looked through the finder? When mirror is down, all look ok thru the viewfinder, after mirror stuck up....it is black
Is the image fine? image is fine, there is some dust, but looks ok. I checked all functions and they are ok
Can you twist-in the lens further beyond the infinity stop? nop, max if infinity. Moving the focus is smooth

I checked shooting with the timer, same issue
I checked in manual or auto (all modes)....same issue

 

[AgX]

So my wild guess seems right...

The lever you point at is in no way connected to the shutter as you say (the shutter sits in the back of the camera) but to the diaphragm that forms the aperture in the lens.
Its function is to let the aperture close to the preset value after releasing, and to open itn again after the exposure.
This lever must be in idle position, as when the lens is taken off, be at the right side end of the slit.

At any setting of the aperture dial you should be able to move it against a slight spring force to the left end of the slit, and when you let it go it must jump out of itself to right end.

 

[AgX]

You will have to open the lens... I guess after taking off that black rear ring you might see what is going on.
Have you got a screwdriver that exactly fits those tiny cross-head screws?

 

[Ricardo Daniel]

I agree, basically with the mirror down that lever makes the diaphragm fully open (so the viewfinder has no obstructions), when pressing the shutter mirror go up and down so the diaphragm closes to the preset aperture position
In this camera it stuck making the mirror get in up position. I was able to move that lever freely...

 

[Ricardo Daniel]

U put some red paint in the camera lever, I put the lens, make cycle and open...

 

[AgX]

I have to correct myself! Now that you show a sharp photo of this region of the mount.

The lever is at same end position, in relation to the end of that bayonet flange, as with my PK-mount sample. But for whatever reaon at your sample the slit for that lever goes further to the right... This misled me to deducting that the lever was not at its end position.


(I just looked for another Pk-mount lens, and here that area looks axactly as yours, seemingly I got the odd sample..., sorry)

 

[Ricardo Daniel]

so the lever in the camera pushes the lever in the lens so diaphragm is open, when shutter is pressed, the mirror goes up, so the camera lever goes up and the lens lever follows. Diaphragm close....then mirror goes down (supposely), pushing the lens lever down and opening the diaphragm...this last step did not happen, I suppose the lens lever stuck avoiding the mirror returns.
Looking into the lens the lever moves freely (spring loaded), it does not stuck at any position. I look the diaphragm and it remains closed when mirror stuck...so lens lever is the problem

 

[Ricardo Daniel]

I could open the lens, but I will not do it until I could reproduce the issue on the lens lever. With lens out, that lever never stuck at any position, it stuck when lens into the camera body...

 

[Ricardo Daniel]

 

[Ricardo Daniel]

so before pressing the shutter, diaphragm is open.....after shutter operation, the lens lever stuck (see diaphragm in closed position see photo)

 

[henryvk]

Hello OP, I had a similar problem with my Ricoh KR-5 (aka XR 500) and the culprit seems to have been the diaphragm lever... or something. There may however be multiple causes (cf https://www.photo.net/discuss/threa...the-pentax-forum-but-i-need-some-help.340311/). Spraying WD40 into the gap that the lever protrudes from solved the issue for me. The mirror getting stuck is apparently very common with Ricoh XR/KR's. My camera has been working fine ever since the lubricant treatment two years ago.

 

[Ricardo Daniel]

You put wd40 on the camera side or lens side?

 

[AgX]

My question too... but questionable on either side. Though, as people say, who succeeds is in the right.

 

[henryvk]

You put wd40 on the camera side or lens side?

Camera side!



There's two other issues that may cause the mirror to get stuck. One is that the lightseal around the focusing screen has gotten sticky, particularly the bit to the front where it lines up with the bottom edge of the mirror. You can carefully peel it off and replace it with a fresh strip of light seal.

The other thing is that the adhesive that holds the mirror in place softens up over time. This causes the mirror to slide down a half a milimeter or so, which may be enough for it to catch against the frame of the light chamber in the upward position. You can just push the mirror back up, either with your hand or with a flat screwdriver as a lever. Or you can use a hair drier to soften the adhesive and then push the mirror back up. It's described here: https://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/3678869

Most likely it's a combination of all of these factors (sticky gears in the shutter release/diaphragm lever, sticky foam seal, mirror catching on the frame), as I mentioned above, that put just enough drag on the whole assembly to prevent the mirror from returning smoothly. With my KR-5 the mirror would sometimes catch in the upward position for a couple of seconds and come lose either of it's own or by shaking the camera slightly.

 

[henryvk]

My question too... but questionable on either side. Though, as people say, who succeeds is in the right.

Yes, it's definitely a "quick fix" and not a proper repair. However, even though I like the Ricoh, to me, it's not worth the cost of a complete CLA.

 

[Ricardo Daniel]

I put some wd40, only a few drops, on the mirror lever……bad idea….really bad idea….now the mirror stuck up and shutter also….i was able to makes it free touching the shutter leaf (by open the back) but it stuck again
I saw some oil moves to the shutter so i start to clean it, it works a few shots then stuck again….free by hand, more cleaning…i will see what happens…but conclusion….forget wd40

 

[henryvk]

I put some wd40, only a few drops, on the mirror lever……bad idea….really bad idea….now the mirror stuck up and shutter also….i was able to makes it free touching the shutter leaf (by open the back) but it stuck again
I saw some oil moves to the shutter so i start to clean it, it works a few shots then stuck again….free by hand, more cleaning…i will see what happens…but conclusion….forget wd40

Well, did you try any of the other solutions? If WD leaked all they way to the shutter you may have overdone it a tad.

If the shutter locks up there may be an issue with the release button on the bottom: https://www.fixya.com/support/t600246-xr_7_locked_up

Check under the bottom plate for obvious gunk and dirt.

 

[Ricardo Daniel]

I will try, i will post what happens

 

[AgX]

I am confused by now...
The discussion now is about a fault at the camera. But from the first post we learned that the camera without lens works fine, not so with a lens on, and fine again when the lens is taken off again.

So we got an erratically woking camera, that gives the impression above?