RH Designs Stopclock Pro, no lamp/timer delay when burning in

Hello everyone,

I recently acquired a Stopclock Pro and while doing all sorts of tests and trying out with it, I stumbled across (or rather: over) a behaviour that appears to be somewhat odd to me.

First of all, by "no delay", I do not mean the countdown-delay that can be set in the user menu for enlargers that require a minute amount of warmup-time in order to reach full lamp brightness.
What I am talking about is the short delay between pushing the start/stop button and the lamp coming on, together with the timer starting, which is meant to "get your hands in the right place" according to the RH Designs introduction video for the Stopclock Pro.

The thing is, my Stopclock does indeed delay the lamp/countdown after pushing the Start button, but is ONLY doing so during the base exposure. There is no delay when using any of the burn-in program slots.
So, when I don't need my hands/tools under the lens I get a delay, and when I need them there - sometimes both - I don't.
And even if I switched things around and used the base exposure as a burning in-step, I could only do so once, since all the subsequent programmable steps after that will be un-delayed.

Is there a secret user option that I'm missing here?
Is this behaviour normal?
Is it a deliberate design choice or a technical difficulty? If it's the former, it sure feels like trying to annoy people into buying a foot switch in order to free up their hands, which wouldn't sit too well with me .


All the best,
David

PS: Also, my copy came with a rattly Start/Stop switch right out of the box which doesn't impede function but is somewhat unfortunate, especially with all the other buttons feeling so solid.
They really appear to try and sell that foot switch to me .

Edit:
Please don't get me wrong. I'm not trying to nag and think it's a great piece of equipment that will save me more than one headache. But the behaviour described above still strikes me as odd. And although a rattly button would'nt usually make me lose my cool, I think at this price point and right out of the box it's somewhat of a shame.

Did you buy it new? You should have some recourse with the seller about the button. My Stopclock has a fiddly start/stop button (not loose or rattly) that sometimes is too sensitive and will pause right after it starts. Or be difficult switching channels, turning the enlarger lamp on instead. Annoying. I don't use the delay feature, but a foot switch isn't all that expensive--it can be from a gralab or even homemade, it's simple. That way you can get everything ready and in position before the burn exposure.

Dear Pieter12,

thanks for your reply!
I have indeed thought about improvising a footswitch since it didn't appear to be overly complex. Thanks to your encouragement, the chances of me actually doing so have gone up

Compared to your situation, my "problem" doesn't seem all too bad...turning the lamp on instead of switching channels has been on my mind several times already which is why I'm extra-careful not to twitch or anything when I press the button hahaha. Did you buy your's new like that or has this developed over time?
My Start/Stop button has a slightly different problem, as in being not sensitive enough, mainly because it doesn't provide the same resistance as the other buttons. They have a clear treshhold that needs to be overcome in order to push them and tactile feedback will let you know that you did (much like an old-school computer keyboard). Therefore, with the Start/Stop, it already happened several times that I didn't press the button energetically enough and nothing happened hahaha. From what you wrote, I'm afraid my Stopclock could be a candidate for a fiddly button in the future and I already contacted the seller (or rather RH Designs, since Second-Hand Darkroom where I bought it is currently closed on furlough, presumably due to Covid-19).

Oxygalacteus said:

Dear Pieter12,

thanks for your reply!
I have indeed thought about improvising a footswitch since it didn't appear to be overly complex. Thanks to your encouragement, the chances of me actually doing so have gone up

Compared to your situation, my "problem" doesn't seem all too bad...turning the lamp on instead of switching channels has been on my mind several times already which is why I'm extra-careful not to twitch or anything when I press the button hahaha. Did you buy your's new like that or has this developed over time?
My Start/Stop button has a slightly different problem, as in being not sensitive enough, mainly because it doesn't provide the same resistance as the other buttons. They have a clear treshhold that needs to be overcome in order to push them and tactile feedback will let you know that you did (much like an old-school computer keyboard). Therefore, with the Start/Stop, it already happened several times that I didn't press the button energetically enough and nothing happened hahaha. From what you wrote, I'm afraid my Stopclock could be a candidate for a fiddly button in the future and I already contacted the seller (or rather RH Designs, since Second-Hand Darkroom where I bought it is currently closed on furlough, presumably due to Covid-19).

Click to expand...

My issue developed after about a year of use. Of course, by then I was totally hooked and I put up with it. I'd love to know if RH Designs or Second-Hand Darkroom responds to your issue. It might be worth my while to contact them for a replacement switch.

Pieter12 said:

My issue developed after about a year of use. Of course, by then I was totally hooked and I put up with it. I'd love to know if RH Designs or Second-Hand Darkroom responds to your issue. It might be worth my while to contact them for a replacement switch.

Click to expand...

I'll make sure to let you know what their reply is! Since I bought it brand new, received it two days ago and used it for the first time today, it's clear what I'm striving for (at least to me, haha) - replacement or refund. But honestly, since I sold my old timer in a premature fit of anticipation, it's either a replacement or going back to counting ticks and direct baseboard-switch-action.
I can fully understand that you're hooked on it, although I've only been using it for three to four hours or so.

Also, I just saw that SDS offers a 2-year warranty period for RH Designs products. So, depending on how far in you are and where you bought it (I don't know if this is a special service provided by SDS or a global thing for RH Designs products), you might possibly even have a chance of getting that button replaced under warranty.

Drats--just out of warranty. I placed the order with Second Hand Darkroom in February of 2018. But they might be able to send me a switch assembly cheaper (and quicker--I'm in the US) than a repair.

Bummer to hear about issues with the StopClock, you rarely hear a negative word about it or the Analyzer Pro.

I've used the Analyzer Pro for a couple of years and luckily haven't had any issues with it. I assume the buttons/switches on the two devices are the same parts.

Hopefully SDS will resolve the issues for both of you without too much trouble.

I too think that Pieter12' and my Stopclock belong to an odd bunch. Neither Analyzer nor Stopclock are something that one would buy out of impulse (I guess ^^), and I've never seen a negative word about build quality when looking them up. Even now that I was looking more specifically, nothing really surfaced.
So, in Pieter's and my case, I'd assume that whatever mechanism/part dampens the buttons is faulty and therefore not too durable or loose right away. That this inferferes with operation is unfortunate but obviously can happen in very rare cases.
User-serviceable push buttons that can be lifted and replaced from the outside would be a nice touch. Although it'd render the timer's appearance way less sleek, that wouldn't be an issue for me personally, since you can see the small-batch production character of the device anyway (e.g. adhesive label above the row of LED indicators).

I have a Stop Clock Pro on my Multigrade 500 system, the timer must be over 10 years old and has never had an issue, although this unit would have been made under the original RH Designs company before the owner sold to SDS.

Dear Tom,

good to hear that your Stopclock is going strong!
If the devil really is in the small mechanical parts (which I cautiously assume), it's of course impossible to know where they were sourced back when RH Designs was still under original ownership and what - if anything - has changed about that by now.

Maybe you can help me with my original question, from before the thread concentraded on button response: is it normal that the burn-in programs (as opposed to the base exposure) do not provide a small "hand positioning" delay between actually pushing the button and the timer starting (together with the lamp coming on, not the warm-up function)? I still can't make sense of why it is designed that way. I sure could solve this with a footswitch, but I'm curious because the function exists (during the base exposure), but just not where I could make use of it. Am I doing darkroom wrong? hahaha

welcome to photrio....

i have their "timer 3" and it's built like a tank, a wonderful design and joy to use. they were responsive. email them, i'm sure they'll respond to you.

enjoy!

Oxygalacteus said:

Maybe you can help me with my original question, from before the thread concentraded on button response: is it normal that the burn-in programs (as opposed to the base exposure) do not provide a small "hand positioning" delay between actually pushing the button and the timer starting (together with the lamp coming on, not the warm-up function)? I still can't make sense of why it is designed that way. I sure could solve this with a footswitch, but I'm curious because the function exists (during the base exposure), but just not where I could make use of it. Am I doing darkroom wrong? hahaha

Click to expand...

I would have to go and look for myself as I tend to use the timer purely for exposure and not so much the advanced settings.

Tom Kershaw said:

I would have to go and look for myself as I tend to use the timer purely for exposure and not so much the advanced settings.

Click to expand...

Thanks Tom,

I had contacted RH Designs (since SDS is still closed on furlough) some days ago and have already received a reply concerning the burn-in delay.

Information by courtesy of RH Designs:
the Stopclock was originally intended to be used with a footswitch, which is why the delay when burning was not included into the programming. Also, the Stopclock was originally sold including a footswitch. A practice which was stopped in order to keep prices down and because a majority of buyers didn't use the footswitch, which is why it became an accessory.

So, no, there is no delay when burning in and the original layout of the Stopclock did not change when the footswitch was excluded.

Oxygalacteus said:

Thanks Tom,

I had contacted RH Designs (since SDS is still closed on furlough) some days ago and have already received a reply concerning the burn-in delay.

Information by courtesy of RH Designs:
the Stopclock was originally intended to be used with a footswitch, which is why the delay when burning was not included into the programming. Also, the Stopclock was originally sold including a footswitch. A practice which was stopped in order to keep prices down and because a majority of buyers didn't use the footswitch, which is why it became an accessory.

So, no, there is no delay when burning in and the original layout of the Stopclock did not change when the footswitch was excluded.

Click to expand...

I have a couple of RH Designs foot switches that I've never used so perhaps I'm not unusual in that aspect.

Tom Kershaw said:

I have a couple of RH Designs foot switches that I've never used so perhaps I'm not unusual in that aspect.

Click to expand...

I have one that I've only used a handful of times with my Analyzer Pro. My biggest problem with it is finding it with my foot in the dark. Maybe my safelights are too dim

logan2z said:

I have one that I've only used a handful of times with my Analyzer Pro. My biggest problem with it is finding it with my foot in the dark. Maybe my safelights are too dim

Click to expand...

Sounds like a job for glow-in-the-dark sticky stars hahaha

Oxygalacteus said:

Sounds like a job for glow-in-the-dark sticky stars hahaha

Click to expand...

I thought about that! Or some glow in the dark tape. Just wasn't sure if it would fog my paper.

logan2z said:

I thought about that! Or some glow in the dark tape. Just wasn't sure if it would fog my paper.

Click to expand...

Not unless you drop your paper on to it.

logan2z said:

I thought about that! Or some glow in the dark tape. Just wasn't sure if it would fog my paper.

Click to expand...

If it works for Martha Casanave, I'm sure it'll work for us, and I quote:

I stick glow stars on the ceiling, and also in other strategic spots so I can navigate in total darkness when tray-developing sheet film. Glow stars can be found at any art supply.

Click to expand...

From Steve Anchell's Darkroom Cookbook, page 15

Thanks Martha!

logan2z said:

I thought about that! Or some glow in the dark tape. Just wasn't sure if it would fog my paper.

Click to expand...

I would not do that just for the matter of loading film even though it would be 35' feet away from the processing / loading area.

Oxygalacteus said:

If it works for Martha Casanave, I'm sure it'll work for us, and I quote:


From Steve Anchell's Darkroom Cookbook, page 15

Thanks Martha!

Click to expand...

Ok, I'm convinced. Glow stars it is.

My Besseler easel has a little strip of glow-in-the dark tape on the edge closest to me. I have put a strip on my foot switch, too. No problems with paper or film. My bigger problem is inadvertently stepping on the foot switch.

Also, I think the issue with my StopClock might just was well be a relay rather than the switch itself. But it seems easy to open, I just don't have the necessary knowledge to test the components.