Reversal Processing Pan F Plus in the Adox Scala Reversal Kit

[DeletedAcct1]

I followed this forum in order to figure out my processing times for my PanF 50 film shot at ISO 25
All went well during the first stages of the process. I developed at 22C for 10 minutes and then followed the instructions for Scala 160 at 24dgs as dicussed above.
When I re-exposed the film it looked great, very yellow and clear, however I noticed the emulsion was beginning to flake on the sides. It did not go well from here. During the second development the emulsion began to flake off in large chunks, which I noticed when I rinsed and there were large pieces of emulsion when I dumped the water. I stopped rinsing and checked my negative strip. Half of it, the last 3 frames and first three frames had completely worn off, and were blank. The remaining negatives seemed to have great contrast, but the emulsion is barely holding on.

Could I have rinsed too much? Bleached too long (6 minutes)? Agitated too vigorously? Should I add a fixing agent?
I am thinking of trying again with another roll, this time bleaching for 5 minutes. I have also ordered Rollei RBMF Black Magic which I will add to the second developer. Could this help?

I shot the roll two months ago, so it already may be deteriorating?

Please help! I am new to this process.

What causes the emulsion to flake off is not an emulsion damage, the emulsion doesn't melt, otherwise you wouldn't get flakes.
What fails is the subbing layer, an adhesive layer between the emulsion layer and the base, and there's nothing that can be done to prevent its failing other than reducing the bleach concentration, the time spent in the bleach plus a lower temperature (say 18°C).
Not all b&w films are up to a permanganate bleach. Generally stick with Fomapan R 100, Fomapan 100, Adox Scala 50 and nothing else.
And don't use the final fixer bath at regular strenght (1+4). Try 1+9 instead.

 

[ChrisGalway]

I followed this forum in order to figure out my processing times for my PanF 50 film shot at ISO 25
All went well during the first stages of the process. I developed at 22C for 10 minutes and then followed the instructions for Scala 160 at 24dgs as dicussed above.
When I re-exposed the film it looked great, very yellow and clear, however I noticed the emulsion was beginning to flake on the sides. It did not go well from here. During the second development the emulsion began to flake off in large chunks, which I noticed when I rinsed and there were large pieces of emulsion when I dumped the water. I stopped rinsing and checked my negative strip. Half of it, the last 3 frames and first three frames had completely worn off, and were blank. The remaining negatives seemed to have great contrast, but the emulsion is barely holding on.

Could I have rinsed too much? Bleached too long (6 minutes)? Agitated too vigorously? Should I add a fixing agent?
I am thinking of trying again with another roll, this time bleaching for 5 minutes. I have also ordered Rollei RBMF Black Magic which I will add to the second developer. Could this help?

I shot the roll two months ago, so it already may be deteriorating?

Please help! I am new to this process.

You may care to look at this thread:

Reversal Processing of 120 size Rollei Superpan 200 in the Adox Scale Reversal Kit

I tried also diluiting the permanganate more but sometimes I got underbleached slides. It's better to err on safe side: note the underbleach time and add a minute or two the next time around. Yeah, stable temps help. I do this very simply too - I put all my chems in glass bottles and when...

www.photrio.com

where I gave an update using Rollei Superpan 200 film instead of Pan F. I got great results, no evidence of emulsion damage at all. I agitated the 1st Dev as normal but I agitated very gently, almost continuously, in the bleach. In future, I'll use Superpan 200 ... note it's super-panchromatic, i.e. extended red sensitivity, which I'm not keen on, so I used an IR absorbing filter to convert it to normal pan film.

 

[Sal Santamaura]

I followed this forum in order to figure out my processing times for my PanF 50 film shot at ISO 25
All went well during the first stages of the process. I developed at 22C for 10 minutes and then followed the instructions for Scala 160 at 24dgs as dicussed above.
When I re-exposed the film it looked great, very yellow and clear, however I noticed the emulsion was beginning to flake on the sides. It did not go well from here. During the second development the emulsion began to flake off in large chunks, which I noticed when I rinsed and there were large pieces of emulsion when I dumped the water. I stopped rinsing and checked my negative strip. Half of it, the last 3 frames and first three frames had completely worn off, and were blank. The remaining negatives seemed to have great contrast, but the emulsion is barely holding on.

Could I have rinsed too much? Bleached too long (6 minutes)? Agitated too vigorously? Should I add a fixing agent?
I am thinking of trying again with another roll, this time bleaching for 5 minutes. I have also ordered Rollei RBMF Black Magic which I will add to the second developer. Could this help?

I shot the roll two months ago, so it already may be deteriorating?

Please help! I am new to this process.

The emulsion issues you experienced might have nothing to do with reversal processing. I recently decided to try 35mm PAN F PLUS, exposing a roll and developing it in FX-39 II. While sharpness, grain and characteristic curve were all excellent, throughout there were places where the emulsion was missing and/or appeared to have been partially sloughed off and deposited nearby, doubling the thickness/density compared to the even-toned frame it was part of. Edge markings identify this as 5616-12. The box it came in (recycled before developing) was unforgettable because it had a small piece of paper marked "4/27" pasted over the printed expiration date. I don't recall what other numbers were printed on that box.

Not wanting to give up on this film, I purchased a couple more rolls, both of which have "4/27" expiration dates printed directly on their boxes. I haven't exposed/developed either of them yet, but will post again to this thread when I do to report what their edge printing says and whether the emulsion defects persist.

 

[1957ExaktaVarexIIa]

[...] the emulsion is barely holding on.

I got similar problems when reversing my first Rollei Infrared 400 and Ilford Delta 3200 films.

Could I have rinsed too much? Bleached too long (6 minutes)? Agitated too vigorously?

I thought the same. So I modified the process that I had used before (with Fomapan R100):

• I reduced bleach time from 7:30 min to 5:00 or even 4:30. In my opinion it might be a good idea to open the tank just after 4:00 min for example and check if the film is already bleached completely. If not, continue to bleach for a minute or two, then check again.
• I reduced rinsing: with Fomapan I inverted 10 times each time I had filled the tank with water. With Rollei and Delta I invert 3 times only.
• With developer, bleach, fix etc. I use to rotate the tank (about 40 times per minute). Same with Rollei Infrared and Delta 3200 films, but very very tenderly and carefully.
• Same during the whole process with any movement of the tank and the fluids: very very tenderly and carefully!
• I reduced fixing time from 4 to 3 minutes.
• I reduced final wash as described here to "After fixing, fill the spiral tank with water at the same temperature, +/– 5o°C (9oF), as the processing solutions and invert it five times. Drain the water away and refill. Invert the tank ten times. Once more drain the water away and refill. Finally, invert the tank twenty times and drain the water away."

With Fomapan R100, I had used four water fills and inverted 3, 6, 12, and 24 times.

Thus, even with the sensitive Rollei Infrared 400, I haven't had problems any more.

 

[Sal Santamaura]

The emulsion issues you experienced might have nothing to do with reversal processing. I recently decided to try 35mm PAN F PLUS, exposing a roll and developing it in FX-39 II. While sharpness, grain and characteristic curve were all excellent, throughout there were places where the emulsion was missing and/or appeared to have been partially sloughed off and deposited nearby, doubling the thickness/density compared to the even-toned frame it was part of. Edge markings identify this as 5616-12. The box it came in (recycled before developing) was unforgettable because it had a small piece of paper marked "4/27" pasted over the printed expiration date. I don't recall what other numbers were printed on that box.

Not wanting to give up on this film, I purchased a couple more rolls, both of which have "4/27" expiration dates printed directly on their boxes. I haven't exposed/developed either of them yet, but will post again to this thread when I do to report what their edge printing says and whether the emulsion defects persist.

I've now exposed and developed the first of those two additional PAN F PLUS rolls (which were purchased from a different retailer than the first one was). Using Andrew O'Neill's approach of cutting a roll in half to compare results in different developers, I processed the first part in exactly the same chemicals (FX-39 II, indicator stop and TF-5 fix) at the same temperature, for the same time and with the same agitation regime as the previous roll. This one, apparently from an earlier batch with edge printing 5616-11, was not only free of emulsion defects, but also ended up with a substantially higher contrast index: right at ADOX's datasheet value of 0.65 vs its predecessor trial's 0.55.

I then developed the second part of the roll in Perceptol 1+1. Its emulsion too was physically perfect, delivering a contrast index exactly as expected for the processing time specified by Ilford.

I suggest anyone having emulsion issues with PAN F PLUS examine the edge printing. If it's 5616-12, there's a chance the problem lies with the specific batch of film and not reversal processing of it.