Reusing old bottles

[mshchem]

These guys have everything

https://www.berlinpackaging.com/

 

[David Lyga]

Pardon my complete ignorance here, which film chemicals are strong alkalis? I guess I will need to use glass for those chemicals.

If after a month of storage in PET plastic, there is no brittle deterioration, you are safe. The ONLY problems I have had were PART C or the Kodak RA4 Developer. I have never used E-6, however. - David Lyga

 

[Rick A]

I've been using FIJI WATER one liter and half liter bottles for years with zero issues. I like the fact they are square and line up on the shelf closer together, take up less shelf space in my tiny darkroom.

 

[David Lyga]

I've been using FIJI WATER one liter and half liter bottles for years with zero issues. I like the fact they are square and line up on the shelf closer together, take up less shelf space in my tiny darkroom.

They also are able to be squeezed a little bit. However, the Pepsi 16 fl oz bottles are the best for being able to be squeezed to let out air. They have shear sides which allow this. - David Lyga

 

[Rick A]

They also are able to be squeezed a little bit. However, the Pepsi 16 fl oz bottles are the best for being able to be squeezed to let out air. They have shear sides which allow this. - David Lyga

Yes, they are squeezable, but it's easier to keep developer bottle topped off, stop and fix don't matter. As for C-41 and E-6, I've shot a bit of butane into the bottles to keep chems from going bad. I only use B&W chems these days, my film developer of choice is PMK, so I don't store it mixed. I do replenish my LPD paper developer and keep the bottle full. I have, in the past, kept D-76 in pre measured water bottles with excess air squeezed out and tightly capped, lasted three years before I used it up.

 

[tdjenkins]

When I was a kid, I had a friend who saved his dad's amber quart beer bottles for me. They worked great.

 

[Rick A]

When I was a kid, I had a friend who saved his dad's amber quart beer bottles for me. They worked great.

We did that in the 60's and early 70's until they stopped using screw caps on the bottles.

 

[Donald Qualls]

Pardon my complete ignorance here, which film chemicals are strong alkalis?

Rodinal (and clones) concentrate is essentially a lye solution with sulfite and some organic impurities. It's likely the most alkaline solution you'd want to store for any length of time. I've been storing Xtol stock (borax alkali) in upcycled PET drink bottles for a while now, and seen no change in either bottle or solution. I can't report on carbonate (higher pH than borax or metaborate, lower than sodium hydroxide) As noted above, the Part C for color developers (contains the accelerator) is quite alkaline as well, and needs to be stored in glass (or HDPE). I don't know of any other photo chemicals that are too alkaline to store in PET.

FWIW, I buy store brand club soda, for 79 US cents per liter (or flavored sodas at 69 for 2 liters); it comes in metric bottles, as do most sodas (500ml, 1L, and 2L). The club soda is just carbonated purified water with a little sodium bicarbonate ('for taste," says the label). I pour it down the drain and rinse the bottle, remove the original label (easy when empty, slip a knife or scissors under the label, cut it across, and then peel it off where it's glued) and relabel with masking tape marked with a Sharpie. These bottles are always kept in my darkroom, and we don't have children, so I don't worry about someone ignoring the label change and assuming one contains water (and taking a drink), but if you don't have secure storage, this is a potential concern with any reused beverage bottle. Clear labeling, and (if you can still get them) "Mr. Yuck" stickers, combined with child-secure storage (a lock on the darkroom door, ideally) are the best defenses if you have kids around.

If you squeeze out the air before closing, these bottles ought to be better than glass, short of gas blanketing in the glass bottle -- because you can eliminate almost all the air.

 

[David Lyga]

Rodinal (and clones) concentrate is essentially a lye solution with sulfite and some organic impurities. It's likely the most alkaline solution you'd want to store for any length of time. I've been storing Xtol stock (borax alkali) in upcycled PET drink bottles for a while now, and seen no change in either bottle or solution. I can't report on carbonate (higher pH than borax or metaborate, lower than sodium hydroxide) As noted above, the Part C for color developers (contains the accelerator) is quite alkaline as well, and needs to be stored in glass (or HDPE). I don't know of any other photo chemicals that are too alkaline to store in PET.

FWIW, I buy store brand club soda, for 79 US cents per liter (or flavored sodas at 69 for 2 liters); it comes in metric bottles, as do most sodas (500ml, 1L, and 2L). The club soda is just carbonated purified water with a little sodium bicarbonate ('for taste," says the label). I pour it down the drain and rinse the bottle, remove the original label (easy when empty, slip a knife or scissors under the label, cut it across, and then peel it off where it's glued) and relabel with masking tape marked with a Sharpie. These bottles are always kept in my darkroom, and we don't have children, so I don't worry about someone ignoring the label change and assuming one contains water (and taking a drink), but if you don't have secure storage, this is a potential concern with any reused beverage bottle. Clear labeling, and (if you can still get them) "Mr. Yuck" stickers, combined with child-secure storage (a lock on the darkroom door, ideally) are the best defenses if you have kids around.

If you squeeze out the air before closing, these bottles ought to be better than glass, short of gas blanketing in the glass bottle -- because you can eliminate almost all the air.

Good post but I take issue with one of your inferences. You say Part C of color developers is bad for PET storage. ONLY with Kodak's RA4 Part C I have found that to be the case. Kodak's Part C (or A or B for that matter) for C-41 poses no risk for PET.

I would also like to state that, currently, I have my Rodinal stored in PET plastic and there is NO problem with it being there.

And about people taking something that they will be sorry they took. Once I had a guy in my tiny efficiency and he saw all the bottles on my shelf. He asked me for some apple juice and was about to take down a bottle. I hate to deny people stuff, but this time I did, with vehemence. Earlier that day I had mixed up some slightly brown Dektol in apple juice bottles. - David Lyga

 

[ozphoto]

Another consideration - used chemical bottles from your local lab? I ran a lab for years and have a collection of C41 bottles that I keep various chemical in. Haven't deteriorated at all over 30 years, still going strong!

 

[Donald Qualls]

You say Part C of color developers is bad for PET storage. ONLY with Kodak's RA4 Part C I have found that to be the case. Kodak's Part C (or A or B for that matter) for C-41 poses no risk for PET.

I would also like to state that, currently, I have my Rodinal stored in PET plastic and there is NO problem with it being there.

Interesting. I haven't tried Parodinal in PET, but now I will. SO MUCH EASIER to pour from a bottle made for pouring, when I need some concentrate for dilution, vs. having to use a syringe to suck up the concentrate from an upcycled pickle jar. Even if I wind up using a syringe for the actual measure, it's easier to pour some concentrate into a small graduate and draw from the relatively shallow vessel than from a couple ounces in the bottom of a pint jar.

 

[Doremus Scudder]

NO NO NO, a 16 fl oz bottle will hold, virtually, a full half liter. Remember that the companies who fill these bottles NEVER fill them all the way. The extra 27 mL (473 + 27 = 500) is taken up with air, but should NOT be empty when filling with developer.

Indeed, if you opted for metric size bottles, a 500 mL bottle would hold MORE than 500 mL, unless it was a lab dedicated bottle. But when buying liquids in bottles, the liquid is ALWAYS ALWAYS never up to the rim. - David Lyga

I don't know, David. I seem to fill my 16-oz. bottles right to the brim and then toss the extra developer or whatever that won't fit in when I mix up 500ml. Maybe my bottles are different than yours. At any rate, you don't need to shout, and one "no" would do just fine

Doremus

 

[Donald Qualls]

Since 500 ml is 16.9 ounces, a sixteen ounce bottle with a small amount of freeboard ought to hold a half lighter when filled right up. If it doesn't, it was designed to have less than an ounce of freeboard. That said, I buy beverages in half liter and one liter sizes most of the time, and squeeze them a little to eliminate air from the freeboard before closing.

 

[David Lyga]

I don't know, David. I seem to fill my 16-oz. bottles right to the brim and then toss the extra developer or whatever that won't fit in when I mix up 500ml. Maybe my bottles are different than yours. At any rate, you don't need to shout, and one "no" would do just fine

Doremus

Sorry for shouting.

You have to acknowledge that when you buy a pint or a quart, there is some space on top. Most of the time, that space equates to almost exactly what is needed to make up the full metric of 500 mL or 1000 mL. - David Lyga

 

[eli griggs]

Hydrogen peroxide bottles are good, and for several years, I used Ragu sauce bottles, after very paranoid cleaning, with Sarah Wrap between the partially metal lids.

I found the Ragu jars to be about perfect, the thickness, the handles and the wide mouth for filling and dumping chemistry, but know use large Mason jars with plastic lids.

The advantage of a darkroom is no having to keep everything in brown jugs, and under a shelf is usually just fine.

I should add, that I also used and still do, Ziploc containers for darkroom trays with lids, for small prints, 7"w x 7"a max paper size which allows me to keep my line up with minimal fuss during a multi-day printing session.

I have plenty of trays, just a small sink.

 

[tonyowen34]

I'm using used Ilford PQ developer and Rodinal bottles mainly. /QUOTE]

Ian, Just checking, I'm thinking of using some old Ilford PQ developer bottles 500ml and an [very old] Ilford Multigrade developer bottle 250ml and decanting from a 1l bottle of PQ or Multigrade developer.
When you decant, do you fill to over flowing and how do you seal the 'newly' filled bottles??
regards
Tony

 

[Steve Goldstein]

Hydrogen peroxide bottles are good, and for several years, I used Ragu sauce bottles, after very paranoid cleaning, with Sarah Wrap between the partially metal lids.

Have you ever succeeded in removing the sauce smell from the lids?

 

[Ian Grant]

Ian, Just checking, I'm thinking of using some old Ilford PQ developer bottles 500ml and an [very old] Ilford Multigrade developer bottle 250ml and decanting from a 1l bottle of PQ or Multigrade developer.
When you decant, do you fill to over flowing and how do you seal the 'newly' filled bottles??
regards
Tony

You need to check them I have had old Ilford bottles breakdown at the corners, and the tops crack,but I am talking bottles over 30 years old Should be fine I just fill to near the top and use the original tops. If they've had aplastiv film seal as well as the top I make sure the top is clean and flat, bit of very fine wet and dry.

Ian

 

[eli griggs]

Have you ever succeeded in removing the sauce smell from the lids?

No, that smell is built-in by the maker and short of acetic acid, forever.

The durability of these jars make them perfect, IMO, and, this thread almost makes me want to start using them again, but for now, it's store bought Mason jars for me.

I should add, I have brown darkroom jugs on shelves, some never used, but the narrow mouths on most is the reason I do no use them.

 

[KenS]

I need a whole bunch of 500 ml bottles, so I thought about all old bottles that we already cycle. How can I safely reuse these bottles for film chemistry??

clear plastic drinking water, with mineral content
dark green glass olive oil bottles

Phil

If my ageing memory serves me well enough, (after my many years in a 'Research Centre') Glass containers were always 'washed' then 'soaked' in a Chromic acid 'bath' before being 're-used'.

Ken

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

I've been using 500ml plastic drinking water bottles to store stock developer. Each time I use it, squeeze the air out and cap it. Has worked very well.

 

[Ariston]

The cheapest bottles I have found have bleach in them. I buy a bottle of bleach for 59 cents, dump the bleach, and use the bottle.