Reusing old bottles

PhilBurton · Aug 14, 2020

I need a whole bunch of 500 ml bottles, so I thought about all old bottles that we already cycle. How can I safely reuse these bottles for film chemistry??

clear plastic drinking water, with mineral content
dark green glass olive oil bottles

Phil

juan · Aug 14, 2020

The drinking water bottles should be fine for a moderate amount of time. Keep them in a dark cabinet. I don’t think I’ve ever been able to get all of the oil out of an olive oil bottle, but you may be luxcklier.

Ian Grant · Aug 14, 2020

For developers you must use glass or high density plastics, wash well, I sometimes use spent developer to ensure no issues. Then wash again

Ian

John Bragg · Aug 14, 2020

Surely investing in some winchester brown glass bottles should pay off long term ?

https://glassbottles.co.uk/product/500ml-amber-glass-winchester-bottle/

bernard_L · Aug 14, 2020

Ian Grant said:
For developers you must use glass or high density plastics

Clarification: HDPE (high density polyethylene) is NOT a good choice for developer, because of high permeability to air oxygen. Soda bottles are likely PET (polyethylene teraphtalate) a vastly better oxygen barrier. Hopefully, where you live, bottles bear a code indicating (for recycling) what type of plastic; can't help you as I live in Yurp.

If your actual goal is not small bottles per se, but safe storage of developer, wine pouches also have (understandably) a low oxygen permeability. Either recycled (may be hard to disconnect the spigot) or bought new (some even have a separate opening for filling. D-76 partly used, one year, no discoloration or loss of activity.

Also, if you are not too far from a university, try contacting the chemistry dept (1-litre brown bottles) or the people in electronics or material science doing photolithography (0.25litre bottles of photoresist; 2.5 litre bottles of isopropanol or acetone, empty of course).

David Lyga · Aug 14, 2020

One of the BEST bottle designs I have ever seen is the PET plastic SQUARE bottles which one finds for certain juices. These usually hold an actual (filled to the rim) volume of about 480 mL. Other bottles are available, as well. "Sutter Home" is a brand for a wine which comes in 200 mL PET bottles. Also, there are many 50 mL bottles for liquors which serve the purpose, as well. Living in Philadelphia, along with the incessant litterbugs, affords me an easy hunting ground for such searches.

I get ALL my bottles from garbage pails or on the street. Thankfully, most have the caps on. I then wash thoroughly, shake hard, then dry (usually overnight if turned upside down, leaving an airspace), then use them for storing either liquid chemicals or powdered chemicals. These are a godsend, in that they are light, do not break, and are virtually air-tight. - David Lyga

Ian Grant · Aug 14, 2020

bernard_L said:
Clarification: HDPE (high density polyethylene) is NOT a good choice for developer, because of high permeability to air oxygen. Soda bottles are likely PET (polyethylene teraphtalate) a vastly better oxygen barrier. Hopefully, where you live, bottles bear a code indicating (for recycling) what type of plastic; can't help you as I live in Yurp.

If your actual goal is not small bottles per se, but safe storage of developer, wine pouches also have (understandably) a low oxygen permeability. Either recycled (may be hard to disconnect the spigot) or bought new (some even have a separate opening for filling. D-76 partly used, one year, no discoloration or loss of activity.

Also, if you are not too far from a university, try contacting the chemistry dept (1-litre brown bottles) or the people in electronics or material science doing photolithography (0.25litre bottles of photoresist; 2.5 litre bottles of isopropanol or acetone, empty of course).

Bernard, your confusing the softer low density polyethylene, which IS oxygen porous, with HDP. I've used HDP bottles for decades with no issues in afct even Pyrocat HD in water (no Glycol) lasts 4 years in it with no oxidation. I'm using used Ilford PQ developer and Rodinal bottles mainly. In a LPD bottle the Pyrocat goes off in weeks, I have seen people sell developer in these LDP bottles.

I tend to use old 2.5 litre acid bottles again HDP for replenished developer as my lab suppliers (when I ran a precious metal testing laboratory) switch from plastic wrapped glass bottle to HDP, they are very thick walled maybe 1/8". Because they'd contained concentrated acids I'd leave spent developer in them to ensure neutralisation. I use black (Nitric acid) ones for dev, and white/opaque (HCl) for stop and fix.

Ian

David Lyga · Aug 14, 2020

Also, Pepsi 16 fl oz bottles have the advantage of being able to be squeezed a lot in order to remove air. - David Lyga

Doremus Scudder · Aug 14, 2020

Any bottle used for carbonated beverages is not going to be gas permeable. PET is a good choice. I've got a lot of glass bottles too, from kombucha bottles to beer bottles (as long as they have resealable tops).

Something to keep in mind: 16 oz is just a bit less than 500ml. If you mix metric, like I do, it's often irritating to have to toss that little bit of fresh developer that won't fit into the 16-oz bottle... Even more gets wasted with 32-oz bottles when you're trying to squeeze in a liter. Try to find metric-sized containers if possible.

Best,

Doremus

PhilBurton · Aug 14, 2020

@ everyone. Thanks for all the good advice. Much appreciated, as always.

I have an odd situation, where I have 60+ rolls of film that I shot like 40 years ago that are still sitting in my freezer. It's about damn time (now that I'm locked down) that I processed them and freed up space in the freezer. Then I will run them through my scanner. I hope to get into film again, because film photos have a "tactile" quality that electronic camera imges just don't have. I still have my old Watson bulk loader, my old Nikon F2 body with motor drive and some Nikon metal reusable film cassettes. I also have my old 2-reel Nikor tank and some beakers and thermometers. But for now I would like to keep the expenses down.

So if I'm going to re-use old bottles of any kind, now is the time to start saving them, instead of just recycling them. This may sound crazy, but it's not just me. Friends also feel that they have never been busier than they are now, being locked down at home.

David Lyga · Aug 14, 2020

Doremus Scudder said:
Any bottle used for carbonated beverages is not going to be gas permeable. PET is a good choice. I've got a lot of glass bottles too, from kombucha bottles to beer bottles (as long as they have resealable tops).

Something to keep in mind: 16 oz is just a bit less than 500ml. If you mix metric, like I do, it's often irritating to have to toss that little bit of fresh developer that won't fit into the 16-oz bottle... Even more gets wasted with 32-oz bottles when you're trying to squeeze in a liter. Try to find metric-sized containers if possible.
Best,

Doremus

NO NO NO, a 16 fl oz bottle will hold, virtually, a full half liter. Remember that the companies who fill these bottles NEVER fill them all the way. The extra 27 mL (473 + 27 = 500) is taken up with air, but should NOT be empty when filling with developer.

Indeed, if you opted for metric size bottles, a 500 mL bottle would hold MORE than 500 mL, unless it was a lab dedicated bottle. But when buying liquids in bottles, the liquid is ALWAYS ALWAYS never up to the rim. - David Lyga

grain elevator · Aug 14, 2020

60+ rolls of film to develop sounds like you needn't bother with small bottles like that...
For me, too, reusing soda bottles has worked well. Don't do it if other people, especially kids, can get into where you keep them!

AgX · Aug 14, 2020

PET bottles cannot withstand strong alkali. Though that should not be an issue for the OP's use.

pentaxuser · Aug 14, 2020

PhilBurton said:
I have an odd situation, where I have 60+ rolls of film that I shot like 40 years ago that are still sitting in my freezer.

.

If any of those rolls are Ilford Pan F films then it would be much appreciated if you could report back how they in particular turned out. Indeed I and I suspect many others would be interested to find out what rankings you give to the success and failure rate of the various films

Depending on how long you have been here and how closely you follow threads you may have seen comments including one made by Ilford about the need to develop Pan F fairly quickly after exposure. It may have poorer latent image stability than a lot of other films

Thanks

pentaxuser

David Lyga · Aug 14, 2020

AgX said:
PET bottles cannot withstand strong alkali. Though that should not be an issue for the OP's use.

This is a point well bought up, albeit its effect on standard developers is usually null.

But, AgX is correct with some solutions. For example, Part C of the RA4 Kodak color paper developer CANNOT be stored in PET plastic. I found out the hard way, many years ago. That Part C does not need to be kept air tight, but it MUST be stored either in its original container or a glass bottle. - David Lyga

PhilBurton · Aug 14, 2020

AgX said:
PET bottles cannot withstand strong alkali. Though that should not be an issue for the OP's use.

Pardon my complete ignorance here, which film chemicals are strong alkalis? I guess I will need to use glass for those chemicals.

PhilBurton · Aug 14, 2020

pentaxuser said:
If any of those rolls are Ilford Pan F films then it would be much appreciated if you could report back how they in particular turned out. Indeed I and I suspect many others would be interested to find out what rankings you give to the success and failure rate of the various films

Depending on how long you have been here and how closely you follow threads you may have seen comments including one made by Ilford about the need to develop Pan F fairly quickly after exposure. It may have poorer latent image stability than a lot of other films

Thanks

pentaxuser

@pentaxuser No Pan F. Only Kodak Plus-X and Tri-x, all bulk-loaded. I still have my bulk-loader, carefully stored in the original box.

However, I will still report results and probably ask questions based on the results of the first few processing cycles.
I know this may sound weird to some of my fellow DSLR users, but the idea of getting back into film has me really excited. Now all I "need" is used Hasselblad 500C with 2-3 lenses.

ozphoto · Aug 14, 2020

I realise you're in the US, but our local Kmart has 500ml brown bottles for $1.50 each - maybe Walmart has similar?

Downside: the don't come with lids, BUT they do fit Vacu Vin wine bottle plugs - I picked up a truckload of both, the latter from a store in the UK who lists on eBay. These are great, as they suck out the air inside to keep your expensive (wine) chemicals usable for much longer.

I have used plastic drink bottles etc previously, but now that I have young nieces, I figured that was an accident just waiting to happen, so went the brown bottle route instead.

https://vacuvin.com/products/vacuum-wine-stoppers/

Andrew Kleinfeld · Aug 14, 2020

I feel a lot more comfortable with glass, filled to the top and well sealed. Stores that sell brewing supplies have good ones, with wire and rubber sealing devices, and some beers come with bottles that have excellent resealing devices (but you have to drink the beer before you can use them). My chemicals keep great in old Groesch beer bottles that have the wire and red rubber sealers.

CMoore · Aug 15, 2020

they really are not very expensive, are easy to clean and they last a LONG Time

https://www.specialtybottle.com/glass-bottles/amber-boston-rounds/larger-sizes

beemermark · Aug 15, 2020

Andrew Kleinfeld said:
I feel a lot more comfortable with glass, filled to the top and well sealed. Stores that sell brewing supplies have good ones, with wire and rubber sealing devices, and some beers come with bottles that have excellent resealing devices (but you have to drink the beer before you can use them). My chemicals keep great in old Groesch beer bottles that have the wire and red rubber sealers.

Groesch bottles are the best. Air tight, dark amber, resealable and the perfect size.

PhilBurton · Aug 15, 2020

CMoore said:
they really are not very expensive, are easy to clean and they last a LONG Time

https://www.specialtybottle.com/glass-bottles/amber-boston-rounds/larger-sizes

@CMoore Thanks for this link. At first, I thought I needed to order like hundreds at a time. No, I can order just 5 or 10. At this price, it's a no-brainer. No need to reuse old bottles or worry about issues with PETE plastic bottles.

beemermark said:
Groesch bottles are the best. Air tight, dark amber, resealable and the perfect size.

@beemermark On Amazon, these bottles are 16 oz. Can you fill them up to 500 ml?

PhilBurton · Aug 15, 2020

CMoore said:
they really are not very expensive, are easy to clean and they last a LONG Time

https://www.specialtybottle.com/glass-bottles/amber-boston-rounds/larger-sizes

Can the 16 oz bottles fill up to 500 ml (17 oz?)

mshchem · Aug 15, 2020

David Lyga said:
This is a point well bought up, albeit its effect on standard developers is usually null.

But, AgX is correct with some solutions. For example, Part C of the RA4 Kodak color paper developer CANNOT be stored in PET plastic. I found out the hard way, many years ago. That Part C does not need to be kept air tight, but it MUST be stored either in its original container or a glass bottle. - David Lyga

David, sounds like you and I have had similar experience finding out about CD concentrate in PET bottles mine was with an E6 kit, same issue. Stress cracking made the bottle brittle, started to leak. The 50mL booze bottles is something I hadn't thought of.
Like you say fill the bottle full, will hold more than labeled, keeps out the killer oxygen.
I have a few dedicated Nalgene HDPE bottles for XTOL. The nice thing about beverage bottles is they are free and if the get gunked up, toss them.

mshchem · Aug 15, 2020

PhilBurton said:
Can the 16 oz bottles fill up to 500 ml (17 oz?)

I've found most pint "Boston Rounds" will hold 500ml. I prefer Nalgene HDPE over glass. HDPE is what Tetenal and Kodak use, great chemical resistance.

Reusing old bottles

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