Reusing chemical bottles for food

[bobwysiwyg]

We drank from pyrex beakers sometimes even at EK. But, we had dedicated coffee beakers and dedicated chemistry beakers. The company even supplied us with food and chemical refrigerators, and no food was allowed in labs, just office areas. Refrigerators for chemicals were modified for use with chemicals, as the auto defrost equipment could actually start a fire or cause an explosion. And, to prove it, they demonstrated how by blowing the door off a commercial refrigerator in the middle of a field.

So, don't store solvents or chemicals in a food fridge.

PE

Oooh, good point.

 

[Bob-D659]

Most labs in the microbiology field just throw away lab glassware after one use. It is much easier and way less expensive than designing and documenting and implementing cleaning procedures that will keep the FDA satisfied. I'm fairly sure beer is acidic and silver is soluble in acids, so . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

 

[removed account4]

you could call the beer " blue brew "

http://www.google.com/search?q=coll...a=X&oi=mode_link&ct=mode&cd=2&ved=0CBoQ_AUoAQ

 

[Mainecoonmaniac]

How much is your health worth?

 

[Athiril]

I can't even get the tomato sauce smell out of a plastic bottle that had tomato sauce in it, despite soaking and washing numerous times.

 

[BetterSense]

I just don't see how there will be any chemical remaining after the bottles are washed. I mean there is surely an acceptable threshold amount for ingestion of fixer...if I accidentally drop my tongs and splash 1 drop of fixer into my mouth I don't die. There should be way less than 1 droplet of fixer left in the bottles after I wash them out with soap and hot water and a bottle brush. If photochemistry is that bad for you, I should be dead soon...I don't even wear gloves and touch the chemicals with my bare hands!

 

[zsas]

It is frankly not worth the risk...per the CDC....

"1.4 HOW CAN SILVER AFFECT MY HEALTH?
Since at least the early part of this century, doctors have known that
silver compounds can cause some areas of the skin and other body tissues to
turn gray or blue-gray. Doctors call this condition "argyria." Argyria
occurs in people who eat or breathe in silver compounds over a long period
(several months to many years). A single exposure to a silver compound may
also cause silver to be deposited in the skin and in other parts of the body;
however, this is not known to be harmful. It is likely that many exposures to
silver are necessary to develop argyria. Once you have argyria it is
permanent. However, the condition is thought to be only a "cosmetic" problem.
Most doctors and scientists believe that the discoloration of the skin seen in
argyria is the most serious health effect of silver."


per
http://www.atsdr.cdc.gov/toxprofiles/tp146.pdf

 

[Monito]

I just don't see how there will be any chemical remaining after the bottles are washed. I mean there is surely an acceptable threshold amount for ingestion of fixer...if I accidentally drop my tongs and splash 1 drop of fixer into my mouth I don't die. There should be way less than 1 droplet of fixer left in the bottles after I wash them out with soap and hot water and a bottle brush. If photochemistry is that bad for you, I should be dead soon...I don't even wear gloves and touch the chemicals with my bare hands!

There are many things we can "get away with", but they are usually things we shouldn't invite onto ourself without good reason. The cost of a few bottles is not good enough reason.

Your lack of understanding of the underlying processes is what makes you dangerous to yourself and others.

It is not a question of a few drops of fixer remaining. There will be no drops remaining after you've rinsed it a few times. What is at issue is the deposits on the walls of the bottles, seen or unseen. Those deposits can leach into the beer as it sits over time. Those deposits are likely to contain complexes of silver and silver compounds.

You can likely get away with using the bottles for beer in that you will live in the short run, but at what cost? You never know what cell may go cancerous or when. You never know which molecule of silver complex may be the tipping point which initiates liver problems.

Would you feed your children food out of the older fixer bottles? Your wife? Your best friend?

Would you tell them? What would they do to you if you did tell them?

Every time you took a sip from your bottle, you'd be asking yourself, "Is this the one?"

Are you nuts?

 

[Bob-D659]

Unless you aggressively remove any silver deposits, you might have a problem. The fixer is easy to remove, and probably not as bad for you as automatic dish washing detergent.

Why did you waste a brown glass bottle on fixer? It keeps just fine in a PETE plastic soda bottle.

 

[Athiril]

I just don't see how there will be any chemical remaining after the bottles are washed. I mean there is surely an acceptable threshold amount for ingestion of fixer...if I accidentally drop my tongs and splash 1 drop of fixer into my mouth I don't die. There should be way less than 1 droplet of fixer left in the bottles after I wash them out with soap and hot water and a bottle brush. If photochemistry is that bad for you, I should be dead soon...I don't even wear gloves and touch the chemicals with my bare hands!

As above, bottle still smells strongly of just tomato sauce, I guess you could wash the bottle out with laundry bleach a few times. Hypochlorite should dissolve silver and silver halides just fine (and other silver compounds). Then wash and deal with the hypochlorite remnants.

I still don't know why you'd want to though. Stuff embeds in plastic. You're not even supposed to re-use water bottles for water, as stress placed on the plastic (light, heat, squeezing, bending etc) releases chemicals over time.

 

[Puma]

I can hardly believe this thread is real...

 

[Worker 11811]

Since at least the early part of this century, doctors have known that
silver compounds can cause some areas of the skin and other body tissues to
turn gray or blue-gray. Doctors call this condition "argyria."

Also known as "Smurfitis!"

 

[Athiril]

Also known as "Smurfitis!"

I initially read smurfitis as something else....

 

[Bob-D659]

http://www.sciencelab.com/msds.php?msdsId=9922934 a MSDS for ammonium thiosulfate, slightly toxic, 1gm/kg of body weight isn't good for a guinea pig(LD50).
Untested on humans.

http://www.rbnainfo.com/MSDS/US/FINISH-GLASS-MAGIC-Dishwasher-Performance-Booster-English.pdf This is the phosphates removed from dishwasher detergent. Similar LD50 quantities to fixer.

http://www.rbnainfo.com/MSDS/US/FINISH-Powder-US-English.pdf


Not nice stuff in all of them, but the latter two are used in the kitchen.

Now what is/was in your used fixer, who knows.

 

[removed account4]

bettersense

buy a bottle capper and a few empties or empty wine bottles from a brew-store,
or a pony-keg and you won't have to bottle the beer at all ..

even though you may wash the bottles clean, steam them, and bleach them
it might make people who drink from the bottles feel more a ease if they didn't ever contain fixer ...

i know of someone who was in the south pacific in a hospital and near him
was a repurposed container that used to have something deadly in it ...
he still thinks about it ( and jokes about it ) 20+years later.

 

[Photo Engineer]

This is unbelievable to me, a chemist and photographer. I feel like Alice in Wonderland!

Chemicals can be toxic for a variety of reasons. They can be toxic due to pH, or toxic due to biochemical reactions. For example, dishwasher fluid is mainly toxic due to pH. It can burn the esophagus going down to the stomach. Dilution or some vinegar will virtually eliminate the pH problem. Silver is inherently toxic and cannot be "neutralized". A strong sequestrant can remove it from the blood, but it is still silver. It is like caging a tiger. The tiger is still dangerous.

Now, as for Hydroquinone and Metol, these can cause liver or kidney damage if ingested, but they cause little damage on the skin. This damage is accumulative with repeated doses and can eventually kill you in a very painful way. And, it is difficult to see it coming and difficult do diagnose.

Please show some better sense! Don't be afraid of chemicals, but at the same time don't be foolhardy.

PE

 

[Bill Burk]

You know I'm the guy who keeps darkroom chems locked behind chicken wire at the urging of a friend, Pediatric ICU nurse.

This thread struck a chord with me because my buddy in college, Jim, used to keep photo chems in Grolsch bottles. I helped provide the stock of bottles.

buy a bottle capper and a few empties.

Jim also brews beer. Bottle capper and clean empties is what he does.

 

[Worker 11811]

Regardless of what you think about reusing containers, if you're bottling fine, homemade beer or wine, wouldn't you want to use the best containers you can get?

How many beer snobs or wine snobs would sneer at you for reusing bottles that you didn't specifically obtain for the purpose, no matter what was previously in them. I've seen people complain about the fact that a bottle of wine is stoppered with a synthetic cork instead of a natural one.

90% of beer and wine drinkers (beer/wine snobs) decide what is "good" or "bad" based on pure, irrational, emotional decisions and not logic or even whether it tastes good. The bottle, the label and the marketing guide the lion's share of the buying decisions and preferences.

I have personally witnessed people who claim to be wine aficionados drink "Two Buck Chuck" out of unlabeled carafes and LIKE it but, if it was poured from a labeled bottle, they would turn up their noses at it.

Personally, I am a beer drinker. ( Wine is for sissies! )
I can't, for the life of me, understand why some people seem to love "Magic Hat." Frankly, I think the stuff is panther pi$$. Even so, it's got a fun-sounding name, the labels look pretty and they have a "really cool" website. It MUST be good! Right? Well, all of the kiddies love it so that just leaves all the more stout for me to drink.

Bottom line: It's all about appearances.
When I made the previous quip about eating soup from a chamber pot, this is exactly what I was referring to but few people seemed to get it. (Does anybody still know what a chamber pot is? )

If you're going to bottle your own beer, I think the best thing to do is to get a crown capper and the supplies that go with.

 

[Dave in Kansas]

Yes, Worker. I know what a chamber pot is and hopefully others do as well. That comment made me chuckle when I first read it, but so true.

Dave

 

[holmburgers]

Baffling indeed. It makes me wonder if B.S. is BSing us... If not, it's such a stupid idea I can't even believe it.

One iota of sense would be sufficient to realize that this is a terrible idea.

See Greg Davis' thread about cleaning JOBO tubes to see how difficult it can be to remove all traces of something. Soap & water aren't magic...

 

[Worker 11811]

My wife works in a museum. On more than one occasion, people have walked in with large soup tureens, asking her to help find out who made them and what they are worth. They are absolutely shocked when my wife tells them that these "tureens" are really chamber pots. She often has to explain what a chamber pot is used for.

Thus, the reason for asking if people know what chamber pots are, anymore.

 

[dynachrome]

I have seen Grolsch bottles used by restaurants for salad dressing. I use Grolsch and other swing top bottles for storing chemicals but I do not then use them for food. It was disappointing for me to see that at some point in the last few years Grolsch shrunk the size of the approx. 16 oz. bottle. Now I can't divide a quart of solution between two new bottles without discarding some. I did order larger swing top bottles from a brewing supply company and the prices were very reasonable.

 

[Steve Smith]

Okay... Show of hands... How many of us remember a high school or college chemistry teacher who drank his coffee out of a Pyrex beaker?

Or, better yet, how many of us have been chemistry teachers who drank their coffee from Pyrex beakers?

When I was in middle school, the whole class made tea in and drank from Pyrex beakers.

And those red rubber washers on Grolsch bottles are great for making sure your guitar strap doesn't fall off!


Steve.

 

[GumPhoto]

Please have more respect for your homebrew than to bottle it in a Grolsch bottle. Yuck!

 

[2F/2F]

FOUR Grolsch bottles? Wow, that's a lot of beer. Imagine the savings you could have by using those FOUR old fixer bottles instead of buying new ones.