Residue on C41 negatives

[Cybertrash]

Hi all,

I recently took up C41 processing at home again after a long break. So far I've developed 4 rolls in 2 batches in my Jobo CPE2. The first rolls (120) came out looking good, but the two 135 rolls I recently processed have this residue on them that I can't get rid of. This is what it looks like:

On the negative the marks only appear on the non-emulsion side, similar to water spots. I use a Paterson water filter and I let my negatives dry without squeegeeing or wiping them off in any way.

Any ideas what this might be caused by, and how to get rid of it?

 

[foc]

What C41 kit are you using?
The marks appear to me that they may have been caused by too concentrated stabilizer If your kit uses it.
If not using stabilizer then something is causing a residue, perhaps in the final rinse. You could try a drop of wetting agent to the final rinse ONLY IF NOT using stabilizer.
Ofcourse I am a squeegee person but don't mock me for that.

 

[Donald Qualls]

I agree, that's probably either stabilizer or final rinse with too much concentrate in the water. Looks very much like what you'd get if you used way too much PhotoFlo on B&W film. It should be possible to rewash the film in 100F distilled or deionized water and get that stuff to redissolve, then apply correctly mixed final rinse.

 

[Cybertrash]

What C41 kit are you using?
The marks appear to me that they may have been caused by too concentrated stabilizer If your kit uses it.
If not using stabilizer then something is causing a residue, perhaps in the final rinse. You could try a drop of wetting agent to the final rinse ONLY IF NOT using stabilizer.
Ofcourse I am a squeegee person but don't mock me for that.

I agree, that's probably either stabilizer or final rinse with too much concentrate in the water. Looks very much like what you'd get if you used way too much PhotoFlo on B&W film. It should be possible to rewash the film in 100F distilled or deionized water and get that stuff to redissolve, then apply correctly mixed final rinse.

Thanks for your input, I am using the Bellini C-41 Monopart kit which does come with stabiliser. It's quite possible that I mixed it too strongly, or maybe that it is a result of reuse. I did try re-washing at about 35°C (95°F the internet tells me) and applying photo-flo, but that didn't have any effect. I might try raising the temp a bit maybe and mixing new stabiliser

 

[mohmad khatab]

Thanks for your input, I am using the Bellini C-41 Monopart kit which does come with stabiliser. It's quite possible that I mixed it too strongly, or maybe that it is a result of reuse. I did try re-washing at about 35°C (95°F the internet tells me) and applying photo-flo, but that didn't have any effect. I might try raising the temp a bit maybe and mixing new stabiliser

Bellini products are really cheap, but fail and bad.

 

[Cybertrash]

Bellini products are really cheap, but fail and bad.

That's an odd assertion, the price is comparable to the Tetenal kits and everyone who's used it around here has been very happy with it.

 

[mohmad khatab]

That's an odd assertion, the price is comparable to the Tetenal kits and everyone who's used it around here has been very happy with it.

that is my point of view ,
In Egypt there is a semi-professional laboratory that relies on this chemistry and the results are always miserable and very poor.
The price is close to other brands due to the value-added tax in Europe, and this does not apply to us in Egypt.
Technically speaking, Bellini's formulas are Konica formulas that are basically based on (Ferrania) formulas where the chemist (Bellini) himself was employed by Ferrania until 1989. And of course, Ferrania's formulas were based on the (ORWO) formulas that are The illegitimate imam of the AGFA Foundation .. Konica died before her, Verrania, and before all this, ORWO died, and finally she died in Agfa.
Italians do not like research and development. Emulsifiers are being developed and their chemical products are not being developed,
Ferrari cars also did not smell the Formula One championship since hybrid engines were adopted.
So is the Italian mentality.
If you make manual acids you will probably be better than these Italian products.

 

[xtol121]

I just ran into the same exact issue yesterday. In a rush I forgot to bring scissors into my changing bag so I just ripped the film off of the canister and ran my process as usual on my Jobo CPE-3. After my wash I dunked in my stabilizer tank (I keep a Tupperware dish of stabilizer and drop my film into it so my reels never touch the stuff) and hung it up to dry. When I went to scan I noticed all this white junk, mostly around the start of the roll. After trying to clean it off I realized the white gunk was some sort of adhesive, most likely the tape from the end of the roll that connects the film to the canister.

Like you, I had no issues with my 120 film which uses a different kind of tape. My guess is the 35mm tape breaks down a bit at 104ºF and ended floating around the middle of the reel. I'll put that theory to the test later this week when I process again.

 

[koraks]

I've also had issues with tape particularly used on Kodak films (the tape they use to attach the film to the spindle) leaving residue on processed film. But the problem was much less severe than the example shown here.

 

[Cybertrash]

Tape is an interesting point, I also found that the tape had dissolved slightly. I've re-washed the negatives at a higher temperature this time and mixed some new stabiliser, let's see what happens.

 

[mklw1954]

I use Unicolor 1-liter powder kits and initially also had water drying marks on 135 film but not 120. The solution was to add 1/2 teaspoon of Kodak Photoflo concentrate to the 1-liter stabilizer and repeat that every 8 rolls processed. No problem since doing that. I always use distilled water to make up chemicals. No squeegee, just air dry. Maybe that would work withe the chemicals you are using.

 

[xtol121]

Welp, today I processed a mix tank with both 120 and 35mm. I made sure to cut the tape off the ends before loading, processed as usual, and did the final rinse as usual. My 120 negatives are perfect, but both rolls of 35mm have a billion (probably not even exaggerating) little white specks all over the negatives. Guessing the tape wasn't the problem since there wasn't any in the tank.

@Cybertrash how did you make out with rewashing/final rinse?

@mklw1954 I used the Arista 1 liter liquid concentrate kit. Guessing it's something in these kits. When I get a chance to rewash I will try your photoflo suggestion and report back.

 

[Cybertrash]

Welp, today I processed a mix tank with both 120 and 35mm. I made sure to cut the tape off the ends before loading, processed as usual, and did the final rinse as usual. My 120 negatives are perfect, but both rolls of 35mm have a billion (probably not even exaggerating) little white specks all over the negatives. Guessing the tape wasn't the problem since there wasn't any in the tank.

@Cybertrash how did you make out with rewashing/final rinse?

@mklw1954 I used the Arista 1 liter liquid concentrate kit. Guessing it's something in these kits. When I get a chance to rewash I will try your photoflo suggestion and report back.

Didn't make much of a difference unfortunately, seems like the marks are stuck there.

 

[Tel]

I used to get similar deposits (I'm guessing they're similar--your uploaded image has expired) until I stopped using the stabilizer. I've been told that new color stocks don't really require it unless you want negs that will outlive you. I've been finishing with a distilled water rinse (no stab, no photoflo) for a good 4 or 5 years now with no apparent ill effects.

 

[xtol121]

Sorry, I should have updated the thread after my experiment the other week! I rewashed the film in hot water (after the wash it was clean, no specks) and used a new package of Arista Stabilizer with 5ml of photo flo mixed in distilled water. After the film dried there was a ton of tiny specks, again. I searched more forums and heard that the Kodak Final Rinse does not leave a residue. I ordered a container of it from Freestyle that makes 50L. Turns out that's a lie and it actually makes 200L. It's a 4 pack of 32oz bottles. You mix 18ml with 982ml of distilled water. Guess I'm set for the next 10-15 years?!

I rewashed the film again in hot water (after the wash it was clean again) and rinsed in the Kodak Final Rinse. The film dried perfectly clean with no specks. Kodak Final Rinse for life!!!

$50 is definitely worth peace of mind for the next 15 years, at least to me!

 

[Donald Qualls]

Well, good thing you've got a near-lifetime supply of the Kodak Final Rinse.