I don't agree. This tale has been hazy for 10 years and is only getting worse.
Now, from Uncle Earl's standpoint, things have been clearing up!
Report Of Experts On Authentication Of Adams' Lost Negatives To Be Released Soon.
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I don't agree. This tale has been hazy for 10 years and is only getting worse.
Now, from Uncle Earl's standpoint, things have been clearing up!
Does anyone know how Adams disposed of his 2nd rates?
Sometimes, photographers trash them, and they are not always properly destroyed...
Did he do his own trashing or was this left to others?
Just curious....
Or... he had no throw aways?
Sometimes, photographers trash them, and they are not always properly destroyed...
Did he do his own trashing or was this left to others?
Just curious....
Or... he had no throw aways?
Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz ...
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It looks like they're likely Earl's, not Ansel's, but the bottom line here is the people involved in producing and verifying this whole thing are looking very shady indeed. If the guy who has these plates really wanted to come off as legit his choice of legal representation was a really, really BAD call. Me, I'm just waiting for the Ansel Adams estate to sue these people blind, not so much because they care about the plates, clearly they don't believe they are Ansel's, but because they don't want him claiming they are Ansel's. It's clear they are intent upon selling prints of them as his and that is illegal no matter which way you look at it. They have no right to use Ansel Adam's name to further any sales of these plates or prints thereof, period.
I really hope they turn out to be Ansel's plates and the court returns them to his estate where they belong!
Not Adams.
Drag your mouse pointer over the image here to see the overly comparison with Uncle Earl's image. http://www.petapixel.com/2010/07/29/ansel-adams-garage-sale-mystery-apparently-solved/
Best post on the issue in the entire time it has been on A.P.U.G.!
I've read AA's books and autobiography. I've read about the fire in the darkroom and never did I see any mention of the class of negatives that were "mostly" restored. Restored to the point of near-printability. I am certain that such negatives existed after the bath tub restoration project undertaken by Ansel and his assistants. I am also certain that Ansel did not tell us what he might have done with such negatives. The perfectionist that he was, he might have distroyed them or he might have kept them in his files, but he would never print from them again.
On thing is certain, whatever he did with that class, he did not indicate in his letters (most of which have been published in a book) or his autobiography that he distroyed or discarded them. I suspect that he kept them. Could he have inadvertently left them in L.A. when he went south to teach? I doubt it. His files included thousands of negatives that did not reach his quality bar but were not tossed either. If I were to make an educated guess, he kept that class. Assuming he kept them, would he take them with him to L.A.? Maybe. He could have intended them as teaching tools. This is pure speculation as his letters and other writings were entirely silent on the matter.
AA does not strike me as the sort of meticulous crafstman/artist that would leave "valuable" negative behind when he went home to S.F. If he took them south, he would likely have brought them home again. Again, all speculation
Speculation is as fulfilling as masturbation.. As Sirius Glass says... "Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz"
On thing is certain, whatever he did with that class, he did not indicate in his letters (most of which have been published in a book) or his autobiography that he distroyed or discarded them. I suspect that he kept them. Could he have inadvertently left them in L.A. when he went south to teach? I doubt it. His files included thousands of negatives that did not reach his quality bar but were not tossed either. If I were to make an educated guess, he kept that class. Assuming he kept them, would he take them with him to L.A.? Maybe. He could have intended them as teaching tools. This is pure speculation as his letters and other writings were entirely silent on the matter.
AA does not strike me as the sort of meticulous crafstman/artist that would leave "valuable" negative behind when he went home to S.F. If he took them south, he would likely have brought them home again. Again, all speculation
Speculation is as fulfilling as masturbation.. As Sirius Glass says... "Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz"
A con from the beginning and we properly called it. The Nigerian Scam reference was dead on.
But let's not wake Sirius Glass from his slumber.
But let's not wake Sirius Glass from his slumber.
A con from the beginning and we properly called it. The Nigerian Scam reference was dead on.
But let's not wake Sirius Glass from his slumber.
<<snork **>> <<snork **>> What! This crap is still around? Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz ...
The point that's been missed here on APUG:
They now say - "The collection that's believed to be the lost work of Ansel Adams" quite a turnaround.
Ian
They now say - "The collection that's believed to be the lost work of Ansel Adams" quite a turnaround.
Ian
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ansel adams in the earliest beginnings of his work was not the ansel known today
so you can toss out pretty much all you know about ansel in regards to proving these negatives as his
why would he teach using negatives from a "confused" period in his photography when he was there to teach zone system and a masters workings
as a "before" example
his development was all over the place at least compared to zone
he vaulted his negs after the fire not before
I'd come back from a trip with Edward Weston and Charis. Somebody
came pounding at the door and said, "There's a fire in the darkroom."
So we dashed out and, sure enough, there was a fire. The firemen
were there, and all I could think of, of course, were the negatives.
So I dashed into the center room, with hot water coming down from the
ceiling, and getting soaked, and reaching for and grabbing boxes of
film and pulling them out. I would rush out, throw the negatives on
the ground, and dash back to get more. You know, this hot water
there was an awful lot of steam; you had to hold your breath. I
saved a great many negatives, but many of them were partially charred.
I remember, the last time I was in I saw that the dry mounting press,
which had a porcelain switch on it everything else was just covered
with smoke, but this switch was bare. So this little German
photographer [who had been working in the darkroom] had apparently
left it on when mounting, and the thermostat had failed, and this
started the fire. But he'd gotten in and turned it off, because it
was the only thing that had been wiped off, and it was in the "off"
position.
Well, then I took all the films and put them in the bathtub.
You know, we had a terrific amount of stuff. And some of them were
burned beyond help. This picture of Half Dome had a water mark on
it on the side. We saved quite a number of things, but a lot of the
pictures done for the Yosemite Company had been burned, and most of
my High Sierra stuff in the northern part of the park was gone.
Well, here was this bathtub filled with film, and the insurance
adjuster arrived the next day (the water was fortunately cold I just
kept putting cold water in it), and he took one look and said, "Total
loss." I said, "I do have some left." He said, "Total loss" you
know, he'd realized what had really happened.
Well then, after we got all the negatives safe in the bathtub, we
had nothing to do. We had a few drinks and played Bach. Poor
Edward was just exhausted flopped on the floor and went to sleep.
Nancy's got that story [in The Eloquent Light] . But the point
is, a great many very valuable negatives were destroyed. Of course,
some were saved. A lot that had historic value were saved, but they
were in little albums. And one of the great jobs was getting them
all together and re-enveloping them and retyping the identifications.
There were just thousands of 35 millimeter, and the movie series I'd
done of rushing water they were very special most of that was all
gone.
What was the movie?
It was a movie series I did of just moving water, cascades very
specially developed with para-phenyline-diamine.
I did details of water with a very high
shutter speed on panatomic film and had that developed in para-
phenylene-diamine, and had a print made and developed also in para-
phenylene-diamine . It was the most beautiful image you've ever
seen in your life. Beautiful color, warm, rich, and sharp. It
burned up in the fire we had at Yosemite.
The Albert Bender insurance company was simply marvelous no
haggling at all. I had about twenty-five film holders that were
damaged by water. I couldn't use them again. Brett Weston said,
"Well, they are salvage 50c apiece I" Made a check out to the
insurance company. You know, he's still using them. [Laughs] They
were damaged, but he dried them out. I would not trust them!
ansels glass negs he says were taken on first sierra hike in 1923 inc half dome previsualization
When did you meet your husband? V. Adams: I don't know 1923 maybe
Was that '23 when you and I met, when Ansel Hall
introduced us?
Adams: No, I think it was before that
Helen LeConte** said that he said that you had met in 1916; she
didn't remember, but he said you had.
Adams: It was on the Yosemite Falls trail in 1916.
V. Adams: I didn't realize that.
Ansel was acting as custodian at the LeConte
Memorial in the valley, and his custom was to take photographs for
a month after this summer in the valley, and then go back home to
San Francisco, and he'd spend weeks developing all the pictures
he'd made. You know, there was no darkroom in Yosemite then. That
was just in the bathroom, you know things were simple like that
Was he photographing then?
Well, he'd go out for a month on a trip after he'd had the summer
in the valley and photograph, and then he'd come back with the
pictures. He'd go with some other young man and a donkey or two.
UNCLE EARL!! lol ..looks like it was a Mr. Holman.
What were the pictures he started making that you sold?
V. Adams: Oh, of Yosemite. Not so much of the high country, because I don't
think Dad thought they would sell as well. Pictures of the valley,
and nice delicate little scenes in the forest.
Teiser: Small prints?
V. Adams: Yes. Some were four by five mounted on a bigger card, and some
I guess were maybe eight by ten and ten by twelve, but nothing
like these big things at all.
Teiser: Do any of those still exist? Do you have any of them?
V. Adams: I don't think that I have. I don't know. We'll have to ask
Ansel. It may be that there are some. I know Nancy Newhall tried
to find all sorts of things from early days [when she was gathering
material for The Eloquent Light] .
Teiser: Incidentally, you asked if we'd like to see some of those papers,
and maybe sometime we would.
V. Adams: Well, I know she sent back a lot of things. We'll have to ask Jim
where he filed them away.* There were many things she took east
right in the beginning. Then they had a big fire in Rochester, and
there was smoke damage on some things, and things that I didn't
know what had happened to them turned up to be safe and came back
west again.
but she probably wrote that book in the 50's
so you can toss out pretty much all you know about ansel in regards to proving these negatives as his
why would he teach using negatives from a "confused" period in his photography when he was there to teach zone system and a masters workings
as a "before" example
his development was all over the place at least compared to zone
he vaulted his negs after the fire not before
I'd come back from a trip with Edward Weston and Charis. Somebody
came pounding at the door and said, "There's a fire in the darkroom."
So we dashed out and, sure enough, there was a fire. The firemen
were there, and all I could think of, of course, were the negatives.
So I dashed into the center room, with hot water coming down from the
ceiling, and getting soaked, and reaching for and grabbing boxes of
film and pulling them out. I would rush out, throw the negatives on
the ground, and dash back to get more. You know, this hot water
there was an awful lot of steam; you had to hold your breath. I
saved a great many negatives, but many of them were partially charred.
I remember, the last time I was in I saw that the dry mounting press,
which had a porcelain switch on it everything else was just covered
with smoke, but this switch was bare. So this little German
photographer [who had been working in the darkroom] had apparently
left it on when mounting, and the thermostat had failed, and this
started the fire. But he'd gotten in and turned it off, because it
was the only thing that had been wiped off, and it was in the "off"
position.
Well, then I took all the films and put them in the bathtub.
You know, we had a terrific amount of stuff. And some of them were
burned beyond help. This picture of Half Dome had a water mark on
it on the side. We saved quite a number of things, but a lot of the
pictures done for the Yosemite Company had been burned, and most of
my High Sierra stuff in the northern part of the park was gone.
Well, here was this bathtub filled with film, and the insurance
adjuster arrived the next day (the water was fortunately cold I just
kept putting cold water in it), and he took one look and said, "Total
loss." I said, "I do have some left." He said, "Total loss" you
know, he'd realized what had really happened.
Well then, after we got all the negatives safe in the bathtub, we
had nothing to do. We had a few drinks and played Bach. Poor
Edward was just exhausted flopped on the floor and went to sleep.
Nancy's got that story [in The Eloquent Light] . But the point
is, a great many very valuable negatives were destroyed. Of course,
some were saved. A lot that had historic value were saved, but they
were in little albums. And one of the great jobs was getting them
all together and re-enveloping them and retyping the identifications.
There were just thousands of 35 millimeter, and the movie series I'd
done of rushing water they were very special most of that was all
gone.
What was the movie?
It was a movie series I did of just moving water, cascades very
specially developed with para-phenyline-diamine.
I did details of water with a very high
shutter speed on panatomic film and had that developed in para-
phenylene-diamine, and had a print made and developed also in para-
phenylene-diamine . It was the most beautiful image you've ever
seen in your life. Beautiful color, warm, rich, and sharp. It
burned up in the fire we had at Yosemite.
The Albert Bender insurance company was simply marvelous no
haggling at all. I had about twenty-five film holders that were
damaged by water. I couldn't use them again. Brett Weston said,
"Well, they are salvage 50c apiece I" Made a check out to the
insurance company. You know, he's still using them. [Laughs] They
were damaged, but he dried them out. I would not trust them!
ansels glass negs he says were taken on first sierra hike in 1923 inc half dome previsualization
When did you meet your husband? V. Adams: I don't know 1923 maybe
Was that '23 when you and I met, when Ansel Hall
introduced us?
Adams: No, I think it was before that
Helen LeConte** said that he said that you had met in 1916; she
didn't remember, but he said you had.
Adams: It was on the Yosemite Falls trail in 1916.
V. Adams: I didn't realize that.
Ansel was acting as custodian at the LeConte
Memorial in the valley, and his custom was to take photographs for
a month after this summer in the valley, and then go back home to
San Francisco, and he'd spend weeks developing all the pictures
he'd made. You know, there was no darkroom in Yosemite then. That
was just in the bathroom, you know things were simple like that
Was he photographing then?
Well, he'd go out for a month on a trip after he'd had the summer
in the valley and photograph, and then he'd come back with the
pictures. He'd go with some other young man and a donkey or two.
UNCLE EARL!! lol ..looks like it was a Mr. Holman.
What were the pictures he started making that you sold?
V. Adams: Oh, of Yosemite. Not so much of the high country, because I don't
think Dad thought they would sell as well. Pictures of the valley,
and nice delicate little scenes in the forest.
Teiser: Small prints?
V. Adams: Yes. Some were four by five mounted on a bigger card, and some
I guess were maybe eight by ten and ten by twelve, but nothing
like these big things at all.
Teiser: Do any of those still exist? Do you have any of them?
V. Adams: I don't think that I have. I don't know. We'll have to ask
Ansel. It may be that there are some. I know Nancy Newhall tried
to find all sorts of things from early days [when she was gathering
material for The Eloquent Light] .
Teiser: Incidentally, you asked if we'd like to see some of those papers,
and maybe sometime we would.
V. Adams: Well, I know she sent back a lot of things. We'll have to ask Jim
where he filed them away.* There were many things she took east
right in the beginning. Then they had a big fire in Rochester, and
there was smoke damage on some things, and things that I didn't
know what had happened to them turned up to be safe and came back
west again.
but she probably wrote that book in the 50's
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http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100824...vbl9lbnRlcnRhaW5tZW50BHNsawNhbnNlbGFkYW1zdHI-
Looks like Adam's heirs are not happy....
Looks like Adam's heirs are not happy....
"'We are disappointed that the Ansel Adams Publishing Rights Trust has decided to resort to the courts in order to resolve what, in our view, is a debate that should be resolved by art and forensic experts,' [Norsigian's attorney] said in a statement."
What a creep. This is not what they are doing at all. The suit is not about whose work it is. It is about:
"The suit alleges trademark infringement, false advertising, trademark dilution, unfair competition and other claims. It does not specify damages but asks the court to order the defendants to pay restitution of their profits from any sales, as well as award any other monetary relief."
What a creep. This is not what they are doing at all. The suit is not about whose work it is. It is about:
"The suit alleges trademark infringement, false advertising, trademark dilution, unfair competition and other claims. It does not specify damages but asks the court to order the defendants to pay restitution of their profits from any sales, as well as award any other monetary relief."
That's great material. Where'd you find it?
That's the same thing.
If they are made by Adams, there is no trademark infringement, false advertising, etc.
Not that they are by Adams.
Since "Ansel Adams" is a trademark owned by the Trust, the Trust probably has no choice but to sue -- to protect the trademark. Not defending the trademark, I believe, could cause it to lapse -- allowing others to use the name (such as a company marketing an Ansel Adams brand camera.) Even if the negs were proven beyond a doubt to be AA's, there would still be trademark infringement questions.
As some of Earl Brooks images of Yosemite are to be shown in November under his own name in an exhibition alongside those by Ansel Adams and his assistants it becomes even more interesting. The images come from Brooks step-daughter in Montreal.
So it looks more & more like a scam as the Norsigian saga unfolds. It certainly seems to give the AA side a huge boost in their lawsuit.
Ian
So it looks more & more like a scam as the Norsigian saga unfolds. It certainly seems to give the AA side a huge boost in their lawsuit.
Ian
-
- Ian Grant
- Deleted
Exactly...and it is these questions that the suit is all about; not who made the negatives. Norsigian's attorney is attempting to distract from this by making it seem as if it is all about who made the negs, when it is really all about how they are being marketed (i.e. with someone else's trademark).
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- Format
- Medium Format
Nigerian, Norsigian, ...whatever.
HAHAHA classic!
Not if all they then do is say that the negatives were made by Ansel Adams. Not when they then would say that you could buy scans or prints made of/from negatives made by Ansel Adams.
That would be no more but trivial statements of fact.
No more a trademark infringement as a museum putting Adams' name on a label next to a genuine Adams print.
If you have a genuine Adams, you cannot be disallowed saying that you have a genuine Adams, nor offering it for sale as what it happens to be, a genuine Adams.
But, of course, the chance that these indeed are negatives made by Adams is less than remote.
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