Replenishing Xtol

[138S]

I also have excellent results with this film at EI320 developed in stock ID-11.

I think it's entirely possible that Xtol-R has problems building density with this emulsion. Adrian's own comments express frustration for inability to achieve density similar to Foma's data sheet.

It would be interesting to know the real ISO speed of F400 in stock ID-11, but IMO you would probably find the same than with Xtol-R

You may get good results with Foma 400 at EI = 320, of course, in the same way you may obtain good results with TMX at EI = 200.

If you are interested in sensitometry I would recommend you Beyond The Zone System Book, by Phil Davis, if you have not read it.

 

[Bormental]

If you are interested in sensitometry I would recommend you Beyond The Zone System Book, by Phil Davis, if you have not read it.

Will check it out, thank you. In the case of Foma 400 I am having trouble getting the edge markings to be as contrasty in Xtol-R as they are in stock ID-11. That to me is a clear sign that something is off. Adding time helps, but at 15:00 @21C I am clearly dealing with a very long shoulder. I think I'll be sticking with stock Xtol for this film. Besides, it keeps green-coloring my Xtol-R bottle, I am not sure I want that.

 

[138S]

Will check it out, thank you. In the case of Foma 400 I am having trouble getting the edge markings to be as contrasty in Xtol-R as they are in stock ID-11. That to me is a clear sign that something is off. Adding time helps, but at 15:00 @21C I am clearly dealing with a very long shoulder. I think I'll be sticking with stock Xtol for this film. Besides, it keeps green-coloring my Xtol-R bottle, I am not sure I want that.

Of course it is not necessary mastering sensitometry to make get great photographs, but anyway if wnating to experiment with film-developer combinations then practical sensitometry is a powerful tool.

There are two interesting factors, first is Speed Point, this is the exposure amount that provocates a density that is 0.1D over the density Base+Fog has, in ISO conditions the camera meter aims 3 + 1/3 stops more exposure than in the speed point, so in ISO conditions an area metering 3.33 stops underexposure should deliver 0.1D density more than Base+Fog. Usually speed point won't move much form different developer or developments, a fraction of one stop more or less compared to a "Full Speed" developer like D-76 which is a reference for that.

The other factor is the contrast gradient, for ISO conditions you adjust development time to get a 0.62 contrast, this is Density increases by 0.62D for each 3.33 stops of additional exposure.

Once you think in those terms most of the sensitometric mistery is solved and only the nuances are at question. If you plot the graph like Mr Bacon did you know how the film behaves and what you can try do to take advantage of its behaviour in practice, and how to make custom developments for specific needs.

 

[Donald Qualls]

I shoot a lot of Fomapan 400 (need to order more in a couple days when I get paid), and I've never had problems with it, but I'm just now starting to use XTOL and replenish it (worked fine in replenished D-23). We'll find out soon whether I have the same result @Bormental has been seeing.

 

[Bormental]

Maybe my "accelerated" method of seasoning is at fault, as I mentioned above I used two rolls of fully exposed film to quickly season 1L. On the other hand, my Ultrafine 100 and Fomapan 100 times are right on the money, slight deviations from 1+1 time, and having processed 10+ rolls I see very consistent results there, and these 10 rolls should have added more stability to my working bottle.

I have two more exposed rolls of Foma 400 to develop. I'll try stock Xtol and see how it compares.

 

[Bormental]

I am now officially enamored by replenished Xtol. After a dozen experimental rolls, I have started processing my primary films: Delta 400 and Ultrafine Extreme 100 in it and the results are pretty sweet.

Primarily it comes down to tight grain. I always liked stock D76 for grain, but Xtol-R takes it further. Here's a random sample:

Delta 400 in Xtol-R (full image)

100% crop

This is how ISO100 films usually look! For the record, I have processed this at 21C for 11 minutes.

It's not all roses, Xtol-R is not active enough IMO for Fomapan 400 and I have a strong suspicion that it will not work as well for HP5+ but those are my "moody" films that I happy to use stock Xtol or ID-11 for.

 

[Sirius Glass]

I am now officially enamored by replenished Xtol. After a dozen experimental rolls, I have started processing my primary films: Delta 400 and Ultrafine Extreme 100 in it and the results are pretty sweet.

Primarily it comes down to tight grain. I always liked stock D76 for grain, but Xtol-R takes it further. Here's a random sample:

Delta 400 in Xtol-R (full image)
View attachment 249457

100% crop
View attachment 249458
This is how ISO100 films usually look! For the record, I have processed this at 21C for 11 minutes.

It's not all roses, Xtol-R is not active enough IMO for Fomapan 400 and I have a strong suspicion that it will not work as well for HP5+ but those are my "moody" films that I happy to use stock Xtol or ID-11 for.

I found that for Ilford FP4+ and HP5+ I needed to add one minute to the 68°F [20°C] time for replenished XTOL rotary processing.

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

I am now officially enamored by replenished Xtol. After a dozen experimental rolls, I have started processing my primary films: Delta 400 and Ultrafine Extreme 100 in it and the results are pretty sweet.

Primarily it comes down to tight grain. I always liked stock D76 for grain, but Xtol-R takes it further. Here's a random sample:

Delta 400 in Xtol-R (full image)
View attachment 249457

100% crop
View attachment 249458
This is how ISO100 films usually look! For the record, I have processed this at 21C for 11 minutes.

It's not all roses, Xtol-R is not active enough IMO for Fomapan 400 and I have a strong suspicion that it will not work as well for HP5+ but those are my "moody" films that I happy to use stock Xtol or ID-11 for.

Were those shot on 35 or 120? What EI? They look very nice.
@MattKing.... you're going to have to coach me on this replenished Xtol. Xtol 1+1 was my favourite for years before I switched over to pyrocat-hd.

 

[MattKing]

@MattKing.... you're going to have to coach me on this replenished Xtol. Xtol 1+1 was my favourite for years before I switched over to pyrocat-hd.

Be happy to do so Andrew.
We just have to wait until the current product shortage issues are resolved.

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

Be happy to do so Andrew.
We just have to wait until the current product shortage issues are resolved.

Sounds good! Who do you get yours through?

 

[MattKing]

In the past, either Nicole at Beau, or B&H.
Unfortunately, my shipping address in Point Roberts Washington isn't really accessible now, and likely won't be for a long time!

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

In the past, either Nicole at Beau, or B&H.
Unfortunately, my shipping address in Point Roberts Washington isn't really accessible now, and likely won't be for a long time!

I'll probably order it through Kerrisdale Cameras in the mall here when it's available.

 

[Bormental]

Were those shot on 35 or 120? What EI?

That's 35 at box speed.

 

[Donald Qualls]

Wow. Every one of the usual online dealers is out of stock. I hadn't realized.

Good thing I won't need more for several months...

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

Wow. Every one of the usual online dealers is out of stock. I hadn't realized.

Good thing I won't need more for several months...

Gasp!

 

[Mainecoonmaniac]

I am now officially enamored by replenished Xtol. After a dozen experimental rolls, I have started processing my primary films: Delta 400 and Ultrafine Extreme 100 in it and the results are pretty sweet.

Primarily it comes down to tight grain. I always liked stock D76 for grain, but Xtol-R takes it further. Here's a random sample:

Delta 400 in Xtol-R (full image)
View attachment 249457

100% crop
View attachment 249458
This is how ISO100 films usually look! For the record, I have processed this at 21C for 11 minutes.

It's not all roses, Xtol-R is not active enough IMO for Fomapan 400 and I have a strong suspicion that it will not work as well for HP5+ but those are my "moody" films that I happy to use stock Xtol or ID-11 for.

Please test HP5 and show us what you find.

 

[Adrian Bacon]

Please test HP5 and show us what you find.

I quite like HP5 in replenished XTOL. Here’s a resource page I’d you want to look at what the curve would generally look like: https://www.photrio.com/forum/resou...plenished-xtol-for-7-30-at-24c-in-a-jobo.421/

basically, from grades 6 to 10 it’s a little lower contrast, but Below grade 6 to film base plus fog, it’s about normal. At ~ISO contrast, it’s between 400 and 500 speed, and at zone contrast you lose a little speed.

 

[radiant]

Wow. Every one of the usual online dealers is out of stock. I hadn't realized.

Good thing I won't need more for several months...

Fotoimpex has Xtol in stock https://www.fotoimpex.de/shop/fotochemie/kodak-xtol-zum-ansatz-von-5000-ml.html?cache=1593676685 - also no shortage on HP5 either.

 

[Donald Qualls]

Fotoimpex has Xtol in stock https://www.fotoimpex.de/shop/fotochemie/kodak-xtol-zum-ansatz-von-5000-ml.html?cache=1593676685 - also no shortage on HP5 either.

I generally don't purchase from overseas dealers due to shipping costs. The one exception I might make is to get 9x12 cm film in emulsions that aren't available in the USA in that format -- but I still need to go through my plate holders and determine which have bad velvet (might be all of them -- they're past 90 years old, after all, and this design doesn't lend to renewing the velvet) before I spend money on more film for them.

If I needed XTOL next week, I'd consider paying the shipping, but if I needed XTOL next week, I'd most likely mix up a liter or two of Mytol to tide me over. At this point, XTOL is a convenience purchase, trading off cost against not having to mix my own and experimentally confirm replenishment regimen.

 

[MattKing]

As posted before, from Kodak Alaris' website:
"Update: COVID 19 Chemistry shipment delays; May 14, 2020

We are experiencing shipping delays on the products listed below.
KA operations is working as quickly as possible to resolve this.
Please check back on this page for updates.

1058296 1 Gal Professional DEKTOL Developer
1058304 1 Gal Professional Fixer
1058338 5L Professional XTOL Developer
5054184 2X25L TMAX Developer and Replenisher"

 

[Sirius Glass]

Please test HP5 and show us what you find.

I quite like HP5 in replenished XTOL. Here’s a resource page I’d you want to look at what the curve would generally look like: https://www.photrio.com/forum/resou...plenished-xtol-for-7-30-at-24c-in-a-jobo.421/

basically, from grades 6 to 10 it’s a little lower contrast, but Below grade 6 to film base plus fog, it’s about normal. At ~ISO contrast, it’s between 400 and 500 speed, and at zone contrast you lose a little speed.

I used replenished XTOL with HP5+ with great results. I had to increase the development time in the Jobo processor.

 

[Tom Kershaw]

I used replenished XTOL with HP5+ with great results. I had to increase the development time in the Jobo processor.

I would confirm this, some of the XTOL Dev times given are rather too short.

 

[Mainecoonmaniac]

I quite like HP5 in replenished XTOL. Here’s a resource page I’d you want to look at what the curve would generally look like: https://www.photrio.com/forum/resou...plenished-xtol-for-7-30-at-24c-in-a-jobo.421/

basically, from grades 6 to 10 it’s a little lower contrast, but Below grade 6 to film base plus fog, it’s about normal. At ~ISO contrast, it’s between 400 and 500 speed, and at zone contrast you lose a little speed.

Thanks Adrian! Very helpful.

 

[Bormental]

Please test HP5 and show us what you find.

@Mainecoonmaniac I did not forget. Today I developed my first 120 roll of HP5+ in Xtol-R, here's a few shots from it:

Basically, I see nearly identical performance to stock full-strength Xtol, with some improvement in tightness of the grain (which doesn't even matter in medium format).

I love it. BTW, this does not necessarily translate to 35mm format. One thing I am learning about HP5 is that it does not like to be developed in small tanks at higher dilutions with only 300ml of solution. As someone else said it, HP5+ is a "hungry film".

 

[JohnGray]

I agree with Sirius, although I have gravitated toward a larger container - about 1.5 litres - for my working solution.
Your "Batch Replenishing" will result in inconsistent film development, and won't give you the same tonality from roll to roll. Fresh as mixed X-Tol is more active than seasoned developer. It usually takes 4 - 6 rolls to fully season X-Tol in a replenishment regime. Once seasoned, your developing times will probably be close to the 1 + 1 times.
You probably could split your working solution into two smaller bottles for in-between developing session storage, as long as you combined the two before starting the next session.

Resurrecting this old thread since it seems like the right place for the question - Is there any particular advantage to having a larger bottle for the replenished xtol working solution?

If I’m only planning to use a 500ml developing tank, for convenience can I just use a 500ml bottle for working solution, such that I would be adding the 70ml replenishment to an empty bottle then topping off with the used developer from the tank? It seems to me this would reach equilibrium faster?