Replenishing a small tank of developer

[abruzzi]

I’ve been developing everything with a one-shot approach for all the developers I’ve tried since getting back into film a few years ago. My primary developer is Xtol, and I’d like to try running it full strength and replenished. Kodak’s data sheet says to replenish at 70ml per 120 /135-36 roll. (I didn’t see it stated, but I assume that when I add 70ml of fresh solution, I first drain off 70ml of the used solution, so my total developer remains at the same quantity.)

the other thing I didn’t see mentioned is if there are any issues if the replenished solution is a relatively small quantity. I was thinking of mixing up 5 liters, putting 4 liters into the wine bag/box I use now to limit the developer’s exposure to oxygen. Pouring the remaining liter into a 1 liter accordion bottle and using that as my developer, while I replenish from the 4 liters in the wine bag. I could make this work pretty well, if there are no issues replenishing a 1000ml stock.

 

[mshchem]

I ran a 1 gallon "tank" in a brown glass bottle when I was developing a lot of 4x5 in hard rubber tanks. I scratched a line on the neck of the bottle, added the needed replenisher, then filled the bottle with the used developer. Whatever was left of the used you toss.
When I was developing roll film I used a 2 liter pop bottle for my "tank". I was developing everything in Paterson tanks.
Now I use a Jobo, I use XTOL stock one shot.

 

[MattKing]

Don't use the accordion bottles - they are really difficult to keep clean and they frequently let more air in than other types of bottles.
You will want to filter your working solution regularly - the accordion bottles make it hard to see when it is necessary, and even harder to clean out the build up that needs clearing out.
I'm currently using a 2 litre container for my X-Tol working solution. I've used as little as 1 litre in the past, but a bigger quantity assures better uniformity.
It is best to add the replenisher before you pour the used developer back in to the working solution container.
While the developer is doing its job in the developing tank, I add 70 ml of replenisher per roll to the partially empty working strength bottle. When development is finished, I pour back the recently used developer into the working strength bottle until it reaches the "full" line. The rest gets discarded.
I find it helps to use a wide mouth 2 litre graduated jug as an intermediate container. That way I can pour more easily, and empty the used developer more quickly.

 

[RedSun]

BW chemicals are relatively cheap. Most people do not keep a replenishment system. It is just too much work to keep it running. Replenishment system is mostly for people who have a steady work flow. People also want to use different developers for different kinds of films.

But color C-41 is fairly standard. There is no point to try different chemicals. Some color minilabs are still running.

 

[MattKing]

BW chemicals are relatively cheap. Most people do not keep a replenishment system. It is just too much work to keep it running. Replenishment system is mostly for people who have a steady work flow.

I have to disagree.
Moving to a replenishment regime (first with HC-110 and now X-Tol) has been one of the best choices I have made. It is easy!

 

[RedSun]

I have to disagree.
Moving to a replenishment regime (first with HC-110 and now X-Tol) has been one of the best choices I have made. It is easy!

You can. But I do not want to keep just one BW developer for all my films. I may use D-76, or D-76 diluted. Or I may use Rodinal, HC-110, or T-max developer.

C-41 is a totally different story. All the C-41 variants are about the same. We also do not dilute the chemicals as BW developers do.

 

[radiant]

For 12,9 euros one can make 10 liters of 1+1 xtol developer. That can be used to develop 34 pieces of 135 rolls with paterson tank. That equals to about 30 cents per film. I don't think that it is expensive for most of the film photograpers.

 

[Ian Grant]

You can. But I do not want to keep just one BW developer for all my films. I may use D-76, or D-76 diluted. Or I may use Rodinal, HC-110, or T-max developer.

C-41 is a totally different story. All the C-41 variants are about the same. We also do not dilute the chemicals as BW developers do.

The beauty of using a developer like D76/ID-11 or better still Xtol replenished is you get far better results than using it as a one shot FS or replenished and far better results thanHC110, and certainly as good as Rodinal.

Ian

 

[freecitizen]

I posted the following in another thread .... but here is my experience again ....

Xtol works extremely well as a one shot developer, either straight or diluted … however ….

I have been using replenished xtol for a couple of years now. When I went up to 4x5 and 5x7 I found that the volumes of developer I needed were so large ( tray or tank/inversion ) that I could not reasonably use a developer as one-shot. Inversion in my Jobo 4x5 tank needed about 1.3 litres each time.

So I went to replenished, and can simply pour as much developer as I need into the tank and replenish using stock xtol.

I make up 5 litres of Xtol and store it in multiple glass 200ml glass bottles ( discards from the pharmacy ) with airtight screw-on caps ( each one filled to the brim, no air ). That way my stock Xtol stays fresh without degradation from air contact. The replenished developer is kept in a huge, swing-top, 1.5 litre Grolsch beer bottle which is always filled to the top. I pour whatever is needed into the tank and develop. While agitating, I add 70 - 75 mls fresh stock xtol per roll to the bottle and when development is complete I pour the developer from the dev tank back into the big bottle until it is full, then discard any leftover developer down the sink.

The replenished brew has become very stable. I decided to get serious and dialed in my personal film speed ( for Zone I ) and development time to get a proper print value for Zone VIII as per Fred Picker's method outlined in his Zone VI Workshop book. I am getting very consistent negatives with FP4 and HP5, all formats. They generally print well at about grade 2 ( diffusion enlarger ). Sharpness and tonality are excellent. I do proper proofs at grade 2, and include a Stouffer stepwedge on each proof sheet, to see things stay on track.

 

[Ian Grant]

I used Xtol replenished from it's release up until 2007/8. I'd mix 5 litre packs and split into 2.5 litres working solution and the rest replenisher, So easy to use and always excellent results. Like you I needed volume for developing 5x4 sheet film any other way was uneconomic as my atnks need 1 litre of developer per 6 sheets.

Ian

 

[Samuel Dilworth]

The beauty of using a developer like D76/ID-11 or better still Xtol replenished is you get far better results than using it as a one shot FS or replenished and far better results thanHC110, and certainly as good as Rodinal.

Can you elaborate on how the results are better? Nothing beats one-shot consistency. At best you might approach that consistency with replenished. I can see why you might want to replenish anyway (mainly to save money), but what makes it work better?

 

[Ian Grant]

Can you elaborate on how the results are better? Nothing beats one-shot consistency. At best you might approach that consistency with replenished. I can see why you might want to replenish anyway (mainly to save money), but what makes it work better?

It's easier to say what the benefits of replenishment are, finer grain better, shadow detail, better sharpness, in some respects its more like using the developer 1+2 except for the finer grain, This is partially a result of bromide and iodide build up but this is controlled by bleed replenisment, some developer is discarded when you add replenisher, This is more critical with MQ developers as Bromide retards Metol development, Phenidone can tolerate much higher levels.

Ian

 

[MattKing]

An additional benefit comes from the fact that a replenishment regime means I am always working at the ambient temperature, adjusting developing time accordingly.
No need to temper or adjust temperature carefully. I just need to have some water at hand at room temperature, for the pre-rinse (I use one), mixing up stop bath and the initial part of the wash.
The developer and fixer are stored at and used at whatever the room temperature might be.
I don't have a permanent darkroom, so temperature control is more challenging than for those who do.

 

[removed account4]

I’ve been developing everything with a one-shot approach for all the developers I’ve tried since getting back into film a few years ago. My primary developer is Xtol, and I’d like to try running it full strength and replenished. Kodak’s data sheet says to replenish at 70ml per 120 /135-36 roll. (I didn’t see it stated, but I assume that when I add 70ml of fresh solution, I first drain off 70ml of the used solution, so my total developer remains at the same quantity.)

the other thing I didn’t see mentioned is if there are any issues if the replenished solution is a relatively small quantity. I was thinking of mixing up 5 liters, putting 4 liters into the wine bag/box I use now to limit the developer’s exposure to oxygen. Pouring the remaining liter into a 1 liter accordion bottle and using that as my developer, while I replenish from the 4 liters in the wine bag. I could make this work pretty well, if there are no issues replenishing a 1000ml stock.

sounds like a plan !
yup drain off then refill. the wine bag sounds good but if you can find glass amber bottles they work well too. a local health food store sold me
one a while back for like $4, i think it was for a quart or 2. find glass marbles too and put the marbles in the bottle to keep as little air as possible in your containers. the reason i might not use a wine bladder is because they might be hard to clean if and when you decide to clean them. i used to use a replenished system both dk50 ( when i was working with a portrait photographer, she used deep tanks ( 3 or 5 gallon? i can't remember ) and then with sprint and dk50 and ansco 130 on my own, and xtol. just make sure once in a while to clean your containers because stuff sitting around can sometimes get gross.
have fun!
john

 

[RedSun]

I used Xtol replenished from it's release up until 2007/8. I'd mix 5 litre packs and split into 2.5 litres working solution and the rest replenisher, So easy to use and always excellent results. Like you I needed volume for developing 5x4 sheet film any other way was uneconomic as my atnks need 1 litre of developer per 6 sheets.

Ian

Just wonder what you have been using since 2007/8?

 

[Ian Grant]

Just wonder what you have been using since 2007/8?

I started to use Pyrocat HD as well maybe 2004, then moved to Turkey 2006 where I don't have a darkroom or much space, so I took Pyrocat HD with me and only used Xtol on trips home. I found all my Pyrocat negatives very easy to print and haven't returned to Xtol.

Ian