Repairs: Who pays that price?

[RezaLoghme]

Coming back to cameras and their repairs - most complex repairs of middle-of-the-road neo-vintage cameras are probably uneconomical. Replacing one 1980s point-and-shoot with another one is likely to be the best approach.

The modular MF 6x7/6x7 "systems" have a bit of an advantage as they are so simple to disassemble into their individual key components (body, lens, viewfinder, film back). Here, replacing the faulty component is sometimes the best decision.

As many CLA men are freelancing/self-employed (probably monetizing the skills they acquired in a service technician role employed at a dealership or manufacturer), any discussions about "minimum wages" are missing the mark. Reknowned Hasselblad or Leica specialists should charge a decent fee, they are supporting our hobby and therefore they should live well.

In case there are some very emotional memories attached to a broken camera, that should be worth the price of a proper overhaul by an expert. If not, how strong are these emotions then?

 

[Donald Qualls]

The modular MF 6x7/6x7 "systems" have a bit of an advantage as they are so simple to disassemble into their individual key components (body, lens, viewfinder, film back). Here, replacing the faulty component is sometimes the best decision.

And sometimes there are no longer required parts. The first 127 mm lens I bought for my RB67 had a slow shutter; I sent it off to MamiyaRepair, only to be informed it was unrepairable because a plastic gear had failed, and that part was so prone to failure that there were no more spares; no were the earlier/later metal gears to be had. I bought another lens (which, as far as I can tell, works perfectly) for about what the repair would have cost me, but I'd rather have fixed the one I had if it had been practical to do so; it would have been freshly serviced, and further kept one more RB67 lens with shutter in operation vs. sitting on a shelf.

 

[RezaLoghme]

Yes, that is sometimes the bitter reality. Therefore I tend not to buy 2nd grade "stuff" but rather go for the "best", whatever that means. Usually the "ecosystem" is much larger and repairs or spare parts are much easier to obtain.

 

[Donald Qualls]

2nd grade "stuff"

I would certainly not call the RB67 system "2nd grade" -- but the cameras, lenses, and accessories are anywhere from thirty to fifty-plus years old and many were very heavily used by professional model photographers -- people who'd shoot tens of rolls in a single shoot and might well do two or three shoots in a day. The people for whom 220 was created because cutting reloads by half saved them significant money on model fees...

 

[RezaLoghme]

I did not say that.

"And sometimes there are no longer required parts. (...) I sent it off to XXX Repair, only to be informed it was unrepairable because a plastic gear had failed"

That is a situation of "2nd grade stuff", whereas "1st class stuff" often has better quality "things" even when they cannot be seen, and also often a much better survival network because the "1st class stuff" is keeping its value better because it is more cherished by its users.

This can be found in many walks of life, not only (MF) cameras.

And that why, being a simple mind, I prefer to make my life easy by going for the Coca Cola choice, even if there is that niche East Abkhazian microbrewery cola and, of course, the Raymond Poulidor choice (Burger King, BMW, Omega, all Spice Girls if not Beckham etc. etc.).

 

[Donald Qualls]

That is a situation of "2nd grade stuff", whereas "1st class stuff" often has better quality "things" even when they cannot be seen,

For someone new to a camera system, though, there's no reasonable way to know that the Sekor C 127 mm lens made during a 2-year period has the plastic gears while others don't. Plus, the plastic gears worked fine for forty years.

 

[MattKing]

Plus, the plastic gears worked fine for forty years.

Equipment designed for heavy professional use, assuming expected regular maintenance, that lasts for 40 years is not second grade.
The RB cameras are/were workhorses!
By the way, Hasselblad film cameras were also designed with an assumption that they receive regular maintenance. The professional photographers I used to work with that used Hasselblads were always complaining about how often they needed time with the repair technicians - but they considered that a cost of doing business.

 

[BobUK]

Twenty years ago my old pal Eric Owen who was the go to guy for professional camera service used to charge $450 up front flat rate to repair a camera, any camera. This was towards the end of his career when he didn't want a backlog of repairs delaying his retirement. The deal was you got your camera back fully repaired or you got your camera back unrepaired and the money was returned. This kept him busy enough but not too busy.

A clock repairers advice to me was. "If you are being inundated with work, you are the cheapest around, and doing yourself harm. Put your prices up gradually until work drops off. You are then close to the going rate for the area you are working in. Slowly adjust prices around this mark. Then you should arrive at a workable supply of jobs and a fair wage."
Sounds like Eric Owen knows the score.

I repair old clocks and cameras for my own enjoyment, not for cash. I only want to do my own jobs, not try running a business.
It's amazing the amount of people who find out I can repair clocks and think they are doing me a favour by offering their old grannies clock to me for repair. The cheekiest ones are the people that buy a nice old clock in a charity shop or junk shop for buttons, and then expect me to repair it for them gratis.

They have usually been to a clock repairer or jewellers for a quote. That's when the grapevine works and they come to me.
I explain to them how long it takes to repair the clock and parts prices, if available. After this, compare their own hourly take home pay to the price offered by the repairer.
That's when the "sentimental value story starts." It's their sentiment, not mine.
But they are not that sentimental enough about grannies old clock that they will actually put their hands in their pockets and get a professional job done.
Only very close friends and family get my services these days after falling for too many sentimental yarns, repairing gratis, then finding out the owner made a tidy profit on clocks I have repaired for free.
It might sound harsh. I still fall occasionally for a sentimental yarn. I'm not that hard.

 

[RezaLoghme]

View attachment 367886

Yesterday I spent eleven hours repairing a Nikon F4.

The aperture control had to be cleaned and lubricated.

Complications included milling out a screw for the tripod plate and the exposure compensation knob. Its little spring for the safety button came out and I needed time to put it back in.

Without complications and with the right practice, it goes faster, let's say a nine-hour workday including a final functional test.

At an hourly rate of EUR 120/USD 130, that would be EUR 1080/USD 1170. Spare parts and materials not taken into account, tax included.

For this I can get three nice F4s on the second-hand market. I'm not going to consider whether these also have the aperture problem.

Who pays that price?

I now understand better why workshops usually refuse to carry out such repairs.

So there is no choice but to do it yourself.

Andreas, thanks for sharing the detailed breakdown—it’s always fascinating to see what really goes into a full repair job.

But I think there’s a key assumption in your conclusion that deserves a second look. You're comparing the cost (in time and implied value) of bringing one F4 to a carefully restored, as-new condition with the market price of three used F4s—which, by definition, are of unknown condition.

It’s not a like-for-like comparison.

Your restored F4 is now a known quantity: cleaned, lubricated, fully functional, and battle-ready for years to come. The three eBay cameras might be fine… or they might all need similar repairs soon. The market doesn’t price in certainty or longevity—it trades on surface condition and blind hope.

So while no one may pay €1,080 for a repair job, the value of a fully restored camera is still higher than three uninspected ones stacked on top of each other. Especially if you plan to use the camera, not just collect or flip it.

Sometimes, fixing one thing properly is more rational than stockpiling multiple problems.

 

[RalphLambrecht]

View attachment 367886

Yesterday I spent eleven hours repairing a Nikon F4.

The aperture control had to be cleaned and lubricated.

Complications included milling out a screw for the tripod plate and the exposure compensation knob. Its little spring for the safety button came out and I needed time to put it back in.

Without complications and with the right practice, it goes faster, let's say a nine-hour workday including a final functional test.

At an hourly rate of EUR 120/USD 130, that would be EUR 1080/USD 1170. Spare parts and materials not taken into account, tax included.

For this I can get three nice F4s on the second-hand market. I'm not going to consider whether these also have the aperture problem.

Who pays that price?

I now understand better why workshops usually refuse to carry out such repairs.

So there is no choice but to do it yourself.

It's a labor of love. Nikon now charges a minimum of $400 for a repair. It's all not economical. On the other hand, who says that another from the 2nd-hand market works any better oor at all? It makes sense to do it for yourself but a customer will not feel comfortable to pay that price. Minimum wage in Germany is $15/h now. at 10h ,you are looking at$150+parts+tax. It is what it is!

 

[Andreas Thaler]

Another aspect:

I believe customers are more likely to accept reasonably high prices for repairing mechanical cameras than for electronic cameras.

Mechanical devices are associated with high-quality craftsmanship, you have an idea what it is about, while electronics remain abstract or, at best, associated with cheap, mass-produced goods.

Therefore, customers may find it difficult or impossible to understand the cost of repair for an electronic camera.

 

[Andreas Thaler]

It's a labor of love. Nikon now charges a minimum of $400 for a repair. It's all not economical.

Like all manufacturers, they no longer know their older products.

If you take a Canon T90 to a repair shop for repairs, people's faces turn pale ...

So you have to take action yourself, and that's possible with the technical information available today.

I appeal again to anyone who doesn't feel confident about DIY repairs:

Don't be intimidated, it's doable!

 

[Chan Tran]

Like all manufacturers, they no longer know their older products.

If you take a Canon T90 to a repair shop for repairs, people's faces turn pale ...

So you have to take action yourself, and that's possible with the technical information available today.

I appeal again to anyone who doesn't feel confident about DIY repairs:

Don't be intimidated, it's doable!

Reading thru these posts I saw that many want to pay the tech $20 or even $13 an hour. With that kind of skill who wants to work for that kind of money?

 

[Arthurwg]

Minimum wages generally apply to unskilled or minimally skilled work, not skilled or highly skilled camera repair. Anyway, it's getting rather difficult to live in the US on $20 an hour just about anywhere.

I recently sent my Nikon F6 to Nikon USA for repair, which took awhile because they had to wait for parts from Japan. The camera need the the central circuit board replaced. I paid $350, plus shipping, which I considered value for money as the camera is a charmer.

 

[forest bagger]

Hello Andreas!

Mechanical devices are associated with high-quality craftsmanship, you have an idea what it is about, while electronics remain abstract or, at best, associated with cheap, mass-produced goods.

That may be a reason, but the high price for repairing high-end cameras which were extremely expensive when buying new ones is accepted - only the price for repairing mass-produced, cheap cameras is often not accepted, as I see myself.

 

[Hasslebad]

Another aspect:

I believe customers are more likely to accept reasonably high prices for repairing mechanical cameras than for electronic cameras.

Mechanical devices are associated with high-quality craftsmanship, you have an idea what it is about, while electronics remain abstract or, at best, associated with cheap, mass-produced goods.

Therefore, customers may find it difficult or impossible to understand the cost of repair for an electronic camera.

Andreas, I highly appreciate your posts and observations repairing these cameras. The knowledge is so important and it is always those who love the craft that can help others continue this hobby. My favorite cameras (and projectors) are now at least 40 years old. They do have electronics in them, especially my PCP80 6x6 projector. I’d love to continue using it. What’s going to happen when the capacitors go bad or the power circuit? I just found out there is a belt inside that can degrade. Some of these instruments have no rival sentiment-wise or performance-wise.

So yeah I’d pay for a repair/refurbishment.

 

[Andreas Thaler]

Andreas, I highly appreciate your posts and observations repairing these cameras. The knowledge is so important and it is always those who love the craft that can help others continue this hobby.

Thanks for the encouragement!

I'm currently lacking success, see my current Canon T90 repair attempts

 

[F4U]

I have a good buddy who has never leaned a lesson. He keeps buying old things till one works right. Consequently, his entire home is a packrat hell I wouldn't live in as a cockroach or a rat because of the clutter. Yet at age 70 he still hasn't learned. I can only imagine his quality of home life if the money spent buying 60 of everything had been spent wisely.