Reducing press camera weight. Drill pattern wanted.

[X. Phot.]

I've got a Pressman Model D that I would like to reduce in weight, as much as possible. I recall seeing a press camera that had been drilled to reduce it's weight. The drill pattern used was somewhat fancy. Does anybody have an example of this? Thanks in advance.

 

[holmburgers]

Ok, forgive me in advance for being a spoil sport, but I must say this...

Any amount of weight you're going to reduce by drilling will be completely unsubstanial compared to the weight of the necessary components that you can't get rid of. Meanwhile, you've destroyed the originality of something that is only going to get more and more scarce as time goes by. I seriously doubt that drilling will materially reduce the weight so that it's more of a joy to carry.

It reminds me of people that chop of Hammond organs in hopes of getting an easily giggable, 1-man transport organ. The stuff that weighs the most are the components that you need.

Ok, I feel better now...

 

[Steve Smith]

It reminds me of people that chop of Hammond organs in hopes of getting an easily giggable, 1-man transport organ. The stuff that weighs the most are the components that you need.

They are usually split in half to make it easier to carry. You still need all of it though. Usually with a multi-way plug and socket to connect it all together again.

Having been left holding one end of a Hammond whilst carrying it into a lift, I can see the attraction of it.

I would think that each half would still need four people to carry it comfortably though!.


Steve.

 

[X. Phot.]

Ok, forgive me in advance for being a spoil sport, but I must say this...

Any amount of weight you're going to reduce by drilling will be completely unsubstanial compared to the weight of the necessary components that you can't get rid of. Meanwhile, you've destroyed the originality of something that is only going to get more and more scarce as time goes by. I seriously doubt that drilling will materially reduce the weight so that it's more of a joy to carry.

It reminds me of people that chop of Hammond organs in hopes of getting an easily giggable, 1-man transport organ. The stuff that weighs the most are the components that you need.

Ok, I feel better now...

You're forgiven. But honestly, these cameras ain't worth much. I think I could reduce it's weight by a third to a half. I found this image . . .

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v419/wethepeople101/albin1.jpg

But, I once saw an image of a camera where somebody did this, but the pattern used was much more elegant. I just cain't recall where I saw the image.

 

[holmburgers]

Yeah, the sprocket looks pretty awesome. I know motorcycle racers (and others I'm sure) will drill out as much as they can to save weight, like in "On Any Sunday". (great movie!)

Ok, well I said my piece, and honestly now I'm curious to see how much of a reduction you can get... so go for it and share the results!

I might be bi-polar... :joyful:

 

[brian d]

Ok, forgive me in advance for being a spoil sport, but I must say this...

Any amount of weight you're going to reduce by drilling will be completely unsubstanial compared to the weight of the necessary components that you can't get rid of. Meanwhile, you've destroyed the originality of something that is only going to get more and more scarce as time goes by. I seriously doubt that drilling will materially reduce the weight so that it's more of a joy to carry.

It reminds me of people that chop of Hammond organs in hopes of getting an easily giggable, 1-man transport organ. The stuff that weighs the most are the components that you need.

Ok, I feel better now...

Another vote for keep it as it is

 

[X. Phot.]

. . . . I might be bi-polar... :joyful:

I'm old, so when it actually comes time to put the drill-bit to the metal . . . I'll probably just fall into a heap on the sofa and watch another episode of Masterpiece.

Other options for cut-out patterns, if I recall correctly, involve cutting out triangle shapes and rectangular shapes, beyond just the circular shaped holes. I might even consider that type of weight reduction. But, of course that would involve a lot more dismantling of the camera.

 

[Steve Smith]

Yeah, the sprocket looks pretty awesome.

Probably reduced its weight by 20% and its strength by 80%


Steve.

 

[removed account4]

since you suggest your camera isn't worth much
why don't you just start drilling
and drilling
and drilling
and ...

...

and you can enjoy your swiss cheeze camera

 

[Nicholas Lindan]

Look at the Canham DLC and Wehman for examples of drilled-out light weight cameras. It is possible to take a lot of weight out of a slab of material without having much effect on its stiffness or strength. Hollowing it out is the most effective - when a beam is loaded the internal forces are tension in the 'skin' and compression in the interior. When a hollow structure does break it does go in a rather catastrophic manner - think broken egg. Aircraft structural components are usually ribbed with holes drilled between the ribs.

 

[X. Phot.]

Look at the Canham DLC and Wehman for examples of drilled-out light weight cameras. It is possible to take a lot of weight out of a slab of material without having much effect on its stiffness or strength. Hollowing it out is the most effective - when a beam is loaded the internal forces are tension in the 'skin' and compression in the interior. When a hollow structure does break it does go in a rather catastrophic manner - think broken egg. Aircraft structural components are usually ribbed with holes drilled between the ribs.

That's interesting. About half-way down this page there's a picture of grid-work.

http://www.largeformatphotography.info/canham/canhamdlc.html

 

[John Koehrer]

If you have a community college around with classes in industrial design why not ask if they could design a pattern for you?
An art or commercial art class may be able to help out.

 

[waynecrider]

On my Graphic the weight is mostly from the cover. Is that what your drilling, or is there more weight elsewhere? I ask, cause if it is the cover I've thought of shortening mine to getting some weight off. Then too, a spring back is lighter then a Graflok.

 

[TriXfan]

I have the SOLUTION for you that will save the most weight --

just send me your tripod,
and your burdens will be forever reduced.

Karl

 

[X. Phot.]

The university option is interesting.

On my Graphic the weight is mostly from the cover. Is that what your drilling, or is there more weight elsewhere? I ask, cause if it is the cover I've thought of shortening mine to getting some weight off. Then too, a spring back is lighter then a Graflok.

I'm sure most of the weight of this camera is in the case (chassis) and front lid. If I were to trim weight it would be there. The Pressman with lens installed weighs right at 5 lbs. That is 4 oz more than my 8x10 camera weights with it's lens installed. Yikes.

 

[X. Phot.]

I have the SOLUTION for you that will save the most weight --

just send me your tripod,
and your burdens will be forever reduced.

Karl

I use this camera as a hand-held camera most times. I just weighed my old 5x7 camera and it's about 1/2 lb more than the Pressman. The secret there must be that it's made of wood and steel.

Were there any 4x5 Pressmans with a wood cases?

 

[Pupfish]

No, the Busch cameras were all metal boxes, unlike the Graphics which were mostly wood (SuperGraphic being the one exception that comes to mind).

Press cameras were intended to be knocked around on a daily basis and not let the lens get damaged while folded up (for instance, if the camera takes a fall.) I actually had a Super Graphic that fell while open and extended, took a terrible tumble onto some rocks at ocean's edge. It even skittered around in a grotto. Lens didn't get a scractch, although the case did. Afterwards, it still RF focused perfectly.

There are likely much better candidates for ultralight cameras than 4x5 Pressmans. If you don't have a machining background for knowing exactly where and what to skeletonize, I wouldn't go to the bother of total disassembly and Dremel grinding for the very few ounces you'll may drop. Likewise, if it's got a ViewFocus finder, I'd suggest keeping it-- those can be really sweet. I don't know whether this applies to you, but it always seems a pity whenever I see older cameras butchered by someone who isn't even sure yet whether they'll stick with LF photography.

 

[E. von Hoegh]

You need to determine where the stresses are in order to determine where it is safe to remove metal. Simply drilling holes in a cool pattern is pointless. Draw a stress map of the body, then design your cool pattern around it.

 

[X. Phot.]

After studying this further, I can accept that drilling out the case may not be the easiest method to reduce camera weight. I'm sure some folks will be relieved that I'm thinking in that direction. Many thanks for the responses on this project thusfar.

So, since the term "ultralight" was brought up, gears began to spin. Basically the problem is only with the aluminum case and back. By retaining the standard, rails, and bellows, we could surely realize a weight reduction by replacing the case and back with a wooden version of the same. Very interesting. Composite materials? Moroccan Leather?

 

[jacaquarie]

Drilling the case will not give you the reductions that you are seeking. You are looking for pounds and what you will save is the ounce.
Something most do not know, in the bicycle world, Campagnolo Super Record was drilled, more correctly the holes were punched with the press. Campy, Record (not Super) was without holes. For most of the components the record was the lighter. Seems the Super Record were made with thicker materials to offset the loss of strength from the holes.
So instead of the holes adding lightness, seems the holes were adding heavy.
For what you are seeking you may be best served by building your own from scratch. Now you are looking at becoming the engineer and machinist and photographer.

 

[holmburgers]

Just to stir the pot a bit more...

How much strength does one really need from a press camera? I honestly suspect that the solid construction of these cameras is more to provide protection & full enclosure than to satisfy structural integrity requirements.

True, I don't know how much rigidity a swiss-cheesed front plate would have, but I suspect you could remove a lot of material and the focus rails would still do their job. Furthermore, drilling out the body/box wouldn't probalby have too much effect on the strength or torque resistance.

Obviously I'm no engineer... but imagine an old heating/cooling grate; although those are probably iron, they're incredibly strong for consisting of sometimes only scrollwork or the like.

Hope that makes sense...

 

[MaximusM3]

I say move to 35mm.

 

[E. von Hoegh]

Just to stir the pot a bit more...

How much strength does one really need from a press camera? I honestly suspect that the solid construction of these cameras is more to provide protection & full enclosure than to satisfy structural integrity requirements.

True, I don't know how much rigidity a swiss-cheesed front plate would have, but I suspect you could remove a lot of material and the focus rails would still do their job. Furthermore, drilling out the body/box wouldn't probalby have too much effect on the strength or torque resistance.

Obviously I'm no engineer... but imagine an old heating/cooling grate; although those are probably iron, they're incredibly strong for consisting of sometimes only scrollwork or the like.

Hope that makes sense...

Good points. The front plate, for example, could be skeletonised and then sheet aluminium could be epoxied over the skeleton, giving excellent rigidity and maximum weight reduction.

 

[2F/2F]

I suggest simply adding strap lugs. They aren't that heavy anyhow, and weight relief holes won't do much, so I don't really get your motivation. My Linhof weighs only 7 lbs. or so, and that is probably about as heavy as a RF press camera gets. It feels like nothing with a strap on. My Speed Graphic is very light in comparison; Crowns weigh even less.

 

[pgomena]

Sell the pressman and buy a Crown Graphic. Wooden body is pretty darned light and well-balanced. Not very expensive and pretty available.

Peter Gomena