Recommended Test Shots to learn Nikonos III 35mm (1975) from my Dad

Hello! I am a brand new shooter!

I recently acquired my dad's old Nikonos III Underwater Camera! It's a pure mechanical camera with no batteries. From my local camera shop I ordered an old Gossen Luna Pro Light Meter -- but It'll take a week to arrive -- so until then I'd like to take some test shots to become familiar with the cameras settings...

I'm interested in hearing peoples suggestions on what kind of test shots and methodology I should use to learn my new 35mm camera. I have 10 rolls of Fuji Superia XTRA ISO 400 -- and was thinking of shooting a test roll indoors, and another roll outdoors.

The camera supports the following shutter speeds : 1/30, 1/60, 1/125, 1/250, 1/500, B
The lens I have supports the following f-stops : 2.5, 4, 5.6, 8, 11, 16, 22

So I was thinking about setting up my camera indoors on a tri-pod -- and shooting pictures of my friend with different combinations of shutter speeds and f-stops -- and he'll hold up a whiteboard with the settings on the camera used to take that photo. And I assume for all these photos I'll want to have the focus set to his actual distance away from the camera. Would there by any value in not having the lens focus set to the correct distance?

Would these be good tests to do? Can anyone suggest any other tests I should do, and how to accurately go about doing these / other tests?

Also since I'm new -- please let me know any good tips / tricks / rules of thumbs that might exist for analog shooting -- for example I've read about the "Sunny 16" Rule (https://www.slrlounge.com/photography-essentials-the-sunny-16-rule/), etc

Cheers!

Well welcome to the fold! I suggest doing your tests in an area that has direct sunlight. That way you will see if the camera is hitting the right speeds and the lens is closing down as it should. I have a Nikonos IV and V. The 35mm lenses on them are among the sharpest lenses you will ever find. Great cameras and if your breaks fail and you want to park your car you can always put the camera behind one of the tires . They are that strong, really.

There probably isn't anywhere else on the net that has the level of film experience as this site. Sure you will run into the odd crank but hey that can happen anywhere.

Have fun and show us your photos when you have your first tests done.

Eric

Welcome!
The sunny 16 rule is a good place to start for your outdoor photos. At this time of the year, in our relatively northern climes, you might find that a "sunny 11" rule - using f/11 where the rule otherwise suggests f/16, to get a stop more light to the film - might work even better, but that is a good subject for experimentation.
Photos inside are much more dependent on having and using a meter, but there are resources where people have recorded and organized there experiences there, and you can benefit from those until you have put together a set of your own experience.
This thread, and in particular the 1942 vintage Fred Parker exposure calculator linked to in it, could be interesting and helpful to you: https://www.photrio.com/forum/threads/the-ultimate-exposure-computer.137263/
Don't worry too much if at first you find things like EVs complex and somewhat intimidating. They actually become quite intuitive once you have some experience, and they make it easy to apply experience with one camera to use of another.

Do you plan on using it underwater?

Using it underwater may not be the best idea. Various o-rings sealing it probably have deteriorated, and new ones are difficult or impossible to source (so I understand). But it's probably fine as a rain camera.
Or just use it in any weather to take advantage of that lovely 35mm lens.

Eric Rose said:

I suggest doing your tests in an area that has direct sunlight. That way you will see if the camera is hitting the right speeds and the lens is closing down as it should. I have a Nikonos IV and V. The 35mm lenses on them are among the sharpest lenses you will ever find. Great cameras and if your breaks fail and you want to park your car you can always put the camera behind one of the tires . They are that strong, really.

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Will do -- thank's for the suggestion! It looks like tomorrow will be full sun, no clouds, and a whopping 22 degrees! I have some places in mind

MattKing said:

Welcome!
The sunny 16 rule is a good place to start for your outdoor photos. At this time of the year, in our relatively northern climes, you might find that a "sunny 11" rule - using f/11 where the rule otherwise suggests f/16, to get a stop more light to the film - might work even better, but that is a good subject for experimentation.
Photos inside are much more dependent on having and using a meter, but there are resources where people have recorded and organized there experiences there, and you can benefit from those until you have put together a set of your own experience.
This thread, and in particular the 1942 vintage Fred Parker exposure calculator linked to in it, could be interesting and helpful to you: https://www.photrio.com/forum/threads/the-ultimate-exposure-computer.137263/
Don't worry too much if at first you find things like EVs complex and somewhat intimidating. They actually become quite intuitive once you have some experience, and they make it easy to apply experience with one camera to use of another.

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Now that's what I'm talking about. That's some great information right here, thank you so much. I'll be printing out that exposure chart too -- really thankful you linked me to that

Do you know of any standardized example images of the different EV's? So I can see the different between say EV 4, 5, and 6?

Alan Edward Klein said:

Do you plan on using it underwater?

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Not anytime soon! The o-ring is 40 years old at this point. But I am a scuba diver, so I'd love too someday If I can source some quality o-ring replacements I did get a spare Nikonos III off EBay for parts -- maybe I'll do some submersion tests.

You know for Christmas I got my Dad who was a Scuba Instructor a Kodak slide scanner -- and we converted all his underwater slides to digital images on a SD card. I'll have to post those here! I'd love to follow in his footsteps someday

bdial said:

Using it underwater may not be the best idea. Various o-rings sealing it probably have deteriorated, and new ones are difficult or impossible to source (so I understand). But it's probably fine as a rain camera.
Or just use it in any weather to take advantage of that lovely 35mm lens.

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Ahh I can't wait

I'm also a music producer -- and my father had an old reel-to-reel tape machine from 1974 that I acquired from him. It's probably my favorite thing in the studio. I love recording chord progressions to the tape at full speed, then playing it back half-speed for an ethereal smooth warm sound that's literally impossible to get with any computer software. I'm hoping this camera can be visual-equivalent of what his tape machine was to audio

My Nikonos IVa shots
https://www.flickr.com/search/?sort...ch=1&tags=iva&user_id=55760757@N05&view_all=1

Here is a link for having your Nikonos III "re-sealed" and pressure tested: http://www.southern-nikonos.com/index.html Seals are available for storage, so that the underwater seals aren't deformed. Mike Butkus' invaluable site has the instruction manual for your Nikonos, If you don't have your Father's manual, download Mike's and READ IT BEFORE TRYING TO LOAD THE CAMERA! The procedure is NOT intuitive, and using force can do serious damage.

Edit: There is an underwater housing available for an old Sekonic selenium meter. It would be good if you plan to "shoot" the fishes.

The Nikonos III is a fine waterproof camera. When I first bought mine, it needed service. I used Bob Warkentin’s Southern Nikon Service Center in Houston, Texas and was very pleased. However, I do not know if they are still in business.

www.southern-nikonos.com

Nikonos III by Narsuitus, on Flickr

How old is the Fuji film you plan on using for the test?

How has the film been stored?

Who will process the film?

Why did you select color print film instead of color slide film or black & white print film?

What lens or lenses will you test?

Here is how I would test my camera using the ISO 400 film you selected:

Select stationary subjects.
Establish camera to subject distances of infinity, 10-meters, 5-meters, and 3-meters.
Set the focus to the proper distance for each subject
Pick a nice sunny day (no clouds)
Perform the test during midday
Use a tripod
I would keep a complete written record.

First Frame:
Select subject at infinite distance
Set the f/stop to f/16
Set the shutter speed to 1/500th second

Second Frame:
Select subject at infinite distance
Set the f/stop to f/11
Set the shutter speed to 1/500th second

Third Frame:
Select subject at infinite distance
Set the f/stop to f/8
Set the shutter speed to 1/500th second

4th Frame
Select subject at 10-meter distance
Set the f/stop to f/16
Set the shutter speed to 1/500th second

5th Frame
Select subject at 10-meter distance
Set the f/stop to f/11
Set the shutter speed to 1/500th second

6th Frame
Select subject at 10-meter distance
Set the f/stop to f/8
Set the shutter speed to 1/500th second

7th Frame
Select subject at 5-meter distance
Set the f/stop to f/16
Set the shutter speed to 1/500th second

8th Frame
Select subject at 5-meter distance
Set the f/stop to f/11
Set the shutter speed to 1/500th second

9th Frame
Select subject at 5-meter distance
Set the f/stop to f/8
Set the shutter speed to 1/500th second

10th Frame
Select subject at 3-meter distance
Set the f/stop to f/16
Set the shutter speed to 1/500th second

11th Frame
Select subject at 3-meter distance
Set the f/stop to f/11
Set the shutter speed to 1/500th second

12th Frame
Select subject at 3-meter distance
Set the f/stop to f/8
Set the shutter speed to 1/500th second

***
13th Frame:
Select subject at infinite distance
Set the f/stop to f/16
Set the shutter speed to 1/500th second

14th Frame:
Select subject at infinite distance
Set the f/stop to f/16
Set the shutter speed to 1/250th second

15th Frame:
Select subject at infinite distance
Set the f/stop to f/16
Set the shutter speed to 1/125th second

16th Frame
Select subject at 10-meter distance
Set the f/stop to f/16
Set the shutter speed to 1/500th second

17th Frame
Select subject at 10-meter distance
Set the f/stop to f/16
Set the shutter speed to 1/250th second

18th Frame
Select subject at 10-meter distance
Set the f/stop to f/16
Set the shutter speed to 1/125th second

19th Frame
Select subject at 5-meter distance
Set the f/stop to f/16
Set the shutter speed to 1/500th second

20th Frame
Select subject at 5-meter distance
Set the f/stop to f/16
Set the shutter speed to 1/250th second

21st Frame
Select subject at 5-meter distance
Set the f/stop to f/16
Set the shutter speed to 1/125th second

22th Frame
Select subject at 3-meter distance
Set the f/stop to f/16
Set the shutter speed to 1/500th second

23rd Frame
Select subject at 3-meter distance
Set the f/stop to f/16
Set the shutter speed to 1/250th second

24th Frame
Select subject at 3-meter distance
Set the f/stop to f/16
Set the shutter speed to 1/125th second

Test by Narsuitus, on Flickr

Luckily I think my camera is in good shape! It's very good to know there's a repair shop for these bad boys though. Thank you!!!

narsuitus said:

How old is the Fuji film you plan on using for the test?
How has the film been stored?

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Not sure how it's been stored -- I bought it off Amazon. It had good ratings though! I'll soon find out, eh? The box says process by 2020. I should store the film in a freezer to preserve it longer, right?

narsuitus said:

Who will process the film?

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A local professional camera shop that's been in business for 60+ years with on-site equipment.

narsuitus said:

Why did you select color print film instead of color slide film or black & white print film?

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I selected ISO 400 Fuji Superia because I read it's a stellar film for beginners. I want to shoot outdoor nature photos -- in and out of the woods. And photos of my indoor music production studio equipment. So I think ISO 400 will be good for all those scenarios right?

narsuitus said:

What lens or lenses will you test?

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I'll be using the stock nikkor F 35mm lens. My dad also gave me this wide-angle fish-eye lens, which I am SUPPPEERRRR stoked about hehe : http://www.subatec.ch/subawider_e.htm

narsuitus said:

Here is how I would test my camera using the ISO 400 film you selected:

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Wow, thank you so much for such explicit testing instructions. That's exactly what I was looking for.

Can you please explain to me your logic in choosing 1/500 and 1/128 as the only shutter speeds? Is it something to do with calibrating the Sunny 16 rule to my camera?

Also -- I will be doing a lot of indoor shooting without bringing my own lights / flash. So do you have any recommended indoors tests I should do to calibrate my camera for shooting my music studio production equipment in a somewhat-well-lit-room?

I was just about to shoot a test roll inside my music studio. I have a whiteboard setup 11 feet away from my camera, and I'll be writing the current photo's aperture and exposure on the whiteboard -- while the lens focus is set to 11 feet

I was going to do the following photo combinations:

f/2.5 -- 1/500, 1/250, 1/125, 1/60, 1/30
f/4 -- 1/500, 1/250, 1/125, 1/60, 1/30
f/5.6 -- 1/500, 1/250, 1/125, 1/60, 1/30
f/8 -- 1/500, 1/250, 1/125, 1/60, 1/30
f/11 -- 1/500, 1/250, 1/125, 1/60, 1/30
f/16 -- 1/500, 1/250, 1/125, 1/60, 1/30
f/22 -- 1/500, 1/250, 1/125, 1/60, 1/30

which puts me at 35 photos -- perfect because I'm these superia 400 rolls have 36 exposures hehe

Do you think these are good test shots to be doing, or do you have any other recommendations? Should I keep the whiteboard at 11 feet all the time? or should I put it at 5 feet for some shots, and 11 feet for others? etc

Here is the scene I would be shooting for these indoor test photos. Taken with my phone camera -- without a flash. Please suggest any changes

The problem with testing negative film, is you cannot see if it's exposed properly since you're looking at a negative. If you intend to look at the print, the printing process will probably adjust the exposure so you don;t know how far off the original shot was. Same thing if you scan it.

The reason to test with chrome slide film is that you can see how correct the exposure is or not by looking at the film results. There's no secondary process as required with negative film. You can place all slides on a light table and immediately compare one to the other to see if there are issues with the camera's shutter or aperture. Good luck with you test.

When I tell the lab to process my photos, I will be telling them to not compensate the exposures.

But your thought's my testing process I described above though?! Should I move the white board to different distances, etc

Opcode said:

When I tell the lab to process my photos, I will be telling them to not compensate the exposures.

But your thought's my testing process I described above though?! Should I move the white board to different distances, etc

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What do you mean that the lab won;t compensate the exposures? Do you plan to compare the negatives?

I'm not sure sorry -- when I told the guy at the photo store that I'll be using a roll of film dedicated to test shots with different exposure settings, he just mentioned to tell them to not 'compensate the exposures' when I have them process the roll -- or else all the photos will look the same because they'll compensate the photos automatically if not told otherwise. Ill ask them about what you mentioned though!

Opcode said:

When I tell the lab to process my photos, I will be telling them to not compensate the exposures.

But your thought's my testing process I described above though?! Should I move the white board to different distances, etc

Click to expand...

I would not test anything until you get the light meter so you know what initial settings are correct for proper exposures. Make sure the light meter is calibrated correctly first. I don't see the point of doing indoor shots. Most of them are just going to come out too dark. If you want to check shutter speed and shutter accuracy, outdoor shots should be sufficient. Plus you be able to check a larger range of settings. Again, I'd use slide film to eliminate processing variables with the print process required with negative film.

Opcode said:

I'm not sure sorry -- when I told the guy at the photo store that I'll be using a roll of film dedicated to test shots with different exposure settings, he just mentioned to tell them to not 'compensate the exposures' when I have them process the roll -- or else all the photos will look the same because they'll compensate the photos automatically if not told otherwise. Ill ask them about what you mentioned though!

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Did you tell him you were going to use negative film or slide film?

Opcode said:

Do you know of any standardized example images of the different EV's? So I can see the different between say EV 4, 5, and 6?

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Hi, something you should understand about film is that it generally has a large tolerance for overexposure - too much light striking the film. The range of light levels, from darkest to brightest parts of a scene, is typically MUCH less than the capability of the film. So when prints are made from your film negatives they are usually only taking a slice of the range that the film is capable of.

What this means, in practical terms, is that, if you are using a "proper" lab, that you will likely not see any difference in prints over a fairly wide exposure range. But... given the general state of labs today, as opposed to "pro labs" of the 1980s and 90s, etc., I think it's likely that you WILL see differences. However these may be just as likely to be showing limitations of the lab as the film.

The main place where an exposure error usually shows up is in underexposure. One f-stop under may or may not show up, depending largely on the scene. But if you get to two or more stops under, almost for sure you'll see it on prints, probably as a failure to get dark shadows; they'll tend to be a gritty-looking lighter shade of grey.

Anyway, this is just a caution to not be fooled into thinking that prints (or scans) will reliably show the effect of changing camera exposure. Btw, the general rule in setting camera exposures for film, whether by meter or exposure tables, is to just barely get enough, plus a little extra.

As a note, since you are using color film, there is something else you should understand. Color film has three different "layers," one each sensitive to reddish, greenish, and bluish light. The film, as manufactured, is designed for a certain makeup of light, almost always "daylight" nowadays. The sensitivity of each of the layers is balanced for daylight (or electronic flash, which is very similar). If you get into artificial light sources you have to be aware of their color, as adjustments may be needed. Here's an example. If you use a "daylight film" under tungsten light ( the old style bulbs), the relative amount of bluish light is only 10 or 20% of what it would be in daylight. (We don't see it because our eyes are really good at adjusting for differences in light.) Consequently the blue-sensitive layer of the film would tend to be underexposed. The classic solution to this is to use a specific filter on the camera lens to rebalance the color of the light, as well as make the appropriate exposure adjustment called for in the filter tables. The next best thing is to just increase overall exposure enough for the blue-sensitive layer to be more or less ok, then hope that the photofinisher will more or less color-correct the image.

Anyway, these are just some of the issues you will run into with color photography using film. I know it might look like a huge learning curve, but knowing these things up front can help keep you from being led on a wild goose chase by the quality of the photofinishing. Best of luck.

[Update; when I posted I had only seen up to post #11 (7 unread), so I apologize for repeating, without acknowledgment, anything that others had already said.]

Opcode said:

...
Here is the scene I would be shooting for these indoor test photos. Taken with my phone camera -- without a flash. Please suggest any changes
...

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That is sweet!

One thing that may apply to your Nikonos III is in regard to film loading. Normally, with a 35mm camera, each time you wind the film you also see the rewind crank move as the film is taken up. That provides assurance that film is advancing properly. With the Nikonos, at least with the Nikonos V, the rewind knob does not turn when it is in the normal, fully down, position. So, after you've loaded film and it appears to be advancing, close the back and then advance the film with the knob still raised to ensure the knob turns, then you can push the knob to its normal down position.

If you have the manual for your Nikonos III, then just follow what it says about film loading.

The Nikonos is a very enjoyable camera to use - it is solid, rugged, and, stated above, its 35mm lens is astonishingly sharp.

Alan Edward Klein said:

I would not test anything until you get the light meter so you know what initial settings are correct for proper exposures. Make sure the light meter is calibrated correctly first.

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Thanks! I'll wait then. Good call

Alan Edward Klein said:

I don't see the point of doing indoor shots. Most of them are just going to come out too dark. If you want to check shutter speed and shutter accuracy, outdoor shots should be sufficient. Plus you be able to check a larger range of settings.

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Well, the point of indoor shots is that I'd like to use my camera indoors a majority of the time. And I'd like to know what settings to use for them

Theo Sulphate said:

So, after you've loaded film and it appears to be advancing, close the back and then advance the film with the knob still raised to ensure the knob turns, then you can push the knob to its normal down position.
.

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Tell me about it, haha -- I've already learned the hard way....

Opcode said:

Here is the scene I would be shooting for these indoor test photos. Taken with my phone camera -- without a flash. Please suggest any changes

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Looks like the next Ulrich Schnauss...
I have a Nikonos V in orange, and the 28mm and 35mm. The 35mm is nice because you can use it above and below water. The 28 only focuses below water. I don't actually submerge mine, I usually use it in wet environments, like rain or at the waterpark. So I have never used the 28mm.

Like White balance in a digital camera, every film is designed to a specific color temperature. The film you're using is basically for outdoor lighting. As Mr. Bill said, indoor pictures under tungsten lamps will create color problems without flash. The data sheet for this film says that fluorescent lighting is corrected during printing. But since your developer will not make auto adjustments, I don;t know what you'll get. Discuss with processor. See the Fuji data sheet for filter use to correct for indoor lighting situations. Note that there are films made for indoor lighting use, or at least there were at one time. If most of your shots will be indoors, you may want to switch to indoor film. Also, something faster than 400 ISO will reduce the chance of movement since you'll be able to use faster shutter speeds. Others here might have suggestions.
http://www.fujifilm.com/products/consumer_film/pdf/superia_xtra400_datasheet.pdf

I have a suggestion: add a Keytar to that collection!

Get a light meter app for your smartphone if you or someone has one and shoot away.