Recommendations for Wide Angle 4x5 camera

[Lars Bunch]

why a bag bellows doesn´t help?

Bag bellows would help, but I can’t freely interchange bellows on a Linhof Technika. I do have bag bellows on my Toyo monorail camera. At this point I’m beginning to think getting or cutting down a rail to something pretty short for the Toyo is going to be my best and simplest option. I don’t like taking a monorail camera into the field, but I guess if I find a way of packing it in a backpack, it shouldn’t be a problem. If I find I’m using it a lot, then I’ll consider buying something like the Walker Titan XL.

 

[Bob S]

The problem in using wide angle lenses arises from bellows compression. As the bellows are squeezed closer together, it becomes more difficult to apply movements. With a 90mm lens on a flat lens board, I do not have the range of movement I might want despite being able to open the top.

With the 75mm lens which just barely covers 4x5, I would not need much freedom of movement, but the graflex bellows are not as thick when compressed and may allow the sort of movement I might want. Even if it turns out that the graflex will not meet my needs, it is a “good idea” to take a look at it to see if it might do the job. After all, the more expensive, more sophisticated camera isn’t always the best tool for the job.

One of the things I really appreciate about these forums is the range of ideas from everyone. Even if an idea doesn’t perfectly answer my question, it can give me a starting point to find the answer.

Thanks to all who have commented. I learn so much from this community.

Lars

Unless you have a 90mm 4.5 Grandagon or Grandagon N the other 90mm modern lenses as well as the 75 belong on the recessed board. Why not just use the correct board? Then your problem would go away!

 

[Lars Bunch]

Unless you have a 90mm 4.5 Grandagon or Grandagon N the other 90mm modern lenses as well as the 75 belong on the recessed board. Why not just use the correct board? Then your problem would go away!

Thanks for the response, but the issue of the 90mm does not actually pertain to the main question - I just referred to it to illustrate a point. I have the 75mm on a recessed lens board which still requires the front standard be pushed further back than the 90mm on a flat board. The main problem lies in the fact that I am not able to use much rise and no shift when the front standard is pushed into the body of the camera. Additionally being able to work with flat boards would be preferable since Technika boards are quite small and do not give you much room to reach the various levers. I was just looking for suggestions for cameras that might better suit very wide lenses and I think there are a few very good answers in the thread.

 

[Bob S]

The 001015 recessed comfort board has all controls, aperture, press focus, cable release, flash socket on the flat face of the board. If you have the Master then you have the lift up top flap and the bellows will allow more movement then many of short lenses cover on 45.

 

[Bob S]

The 001015 recessed comfort board has all controls, aperture, press focus, cable release, flash socket on the flat face of the board. If you have the Master then you have the lift up top flap and the bellows will allow more movement then many of short lenses cover on 45.

Also, the Master Technika takes lenses as short as 35mm. Very few folding cameras can do that!

 

[Lars Bunch]

The 001015 recessed comfort board has all controls, aperture, press focus, cable release, flash socket on the flat face of the board. If you have the Master then you have the lift up top flap and the bellows will allow more movement then many of short lenses cover on 45.

Yes, and they’re only $627.50 at B&H

 

[Bob S]

Yes, and they’re only $627.50 at B&H

And how much is your camera? How much will another camera cost? Can it do what your camera can do?

 

[Marco Gilardetti]

The problem in using wide angle lenses arises from bellows compression. As the bellows are squeezed closer together, it becomes more difficult to apply movements.

In my personal opinion (I own a Graflex Pacemaker Speed and a Linhof Technika) the bellows of the Graflex are much more rigid than those of the Linhof (although I prefer the synthetic material with which Graflex' bellows are made, but that's another matter). Also, the front bed can't be dropped not even nearly as much as on a Linhof Master Technika.

90mm lenses are already supposed to be mounted on recessed lensboards; there are cheap third-party alternatives to Linhof's expensive lensboards that work just as well (Gaoersi, Wista, ecc...).

Moreover, for lenses 65mm or shorter the Close Focus Attachment device made by Linhof is a very desirable complement.

 

[Lars Bunch]

And how much is your camera? How much will another camera cost? Can it do what your camera can do?

I think the key issue I am considering here is this: Is the cost of another camera that is purpose built to make shooting with wide angle lenses easier worth it to me? Do I shoot with wide angle lenses enough to justify the expense? Or would that money be better spent on film? Learning of other options is helpful in considering whether I should buy another camera or make do with the ones I have. (I will often spend a year or more researching if a camera is worth buying.)

The thing about the Technikas is that using wide angle lenses with them was never very easy. Many of the design choices made in the Master Technika line are simply attempts to make using wide angle lenses a little less miserable. How successful Linhof was might be the subject of some debate. Yes, you can use very wide lenses with the camera, but there are definitely better solutions out there.

A camera like the Walker Titan XL is specifically designed to make using wide angle lenses fairly easy. As I’m sure you are aware, a recessed lens board makes applying tilt and swing adjustments on the front standard a fiddly process since the rear nodal point is pushed well behind the tilt/swing axis. With the Walker, lenses as wide as the SA XL 47mm can be used with a flat lens board.

On the issue of cost, buying a new camera would likely be the cheaper alternative if one were to consider an extreme (and absurd) option of buying three of the above mentioned (#001015) recessed lens boards for the 90, 75 and 65mm lenses that I already own.

The weight of the camera is also an important consideration. The Walker Titan XL is 4.4 lbs. The Master Technika is 6.5 lbs. This can be a serious consideration if one is taking the camera on a long hike.

No camera does everything perfectly. Technikas are big and heavy and work best with mid-range focal length lenses. I think they are great cameras - I have a couple 5x7 models, a few 4x5s and a 6x7 version - but they are not the only good camera in existence. If I only had the resources to afford one camera, I might well limit myself to my Technika IV or my Master Technika, but my resources allow me to consider other options.

You make a good point however about recessed lens boards and I’ll look into finding a deeper one than what I’m currently using. I don’t expect it to make using a 65mm on a 4x5 Technika easy, but it might at least make it possible.

 

[Bob S]

A 65 on a 45 Technika will not focus with any recessed board, you need either the discontinued Wide Angle Focusing device or the current 65mm helical focusing mount board. The current board requires factory mounting. The Wide Angle device needs a flat Technika 69 board.

 

[Lars Bunch]

A 65 on a 45 Technika will not focus with any recessed board, you need either the discontinued Wide Angle Focusing device or the current 65mm helical focusing mount board. The current board requires factory mounting. The Wide Angle device needs a flat Technika 69 board.

Good to know. Thanks.

 

[Marco Gilardetti]

Many of the design choices made in the Master Technika line are simply attempts to make using wide angle lenses a little less miserable.

While I agree with the overall meaning of your sentence, the Master Technika is also the state of the art in this field when it comes to technical cameras. If you think you really need a camera that specialises on extreme wideangle lenses, I suppose you should exit the realm of technical cameras, and only you may know how much you would use a specialised camera and to which avail. Personally, when I mount the 65mm it basically means that "I'm roasted": in general it doesn't mean that I'm trying to be "creative", but that I don't have room enough to move around, so the photograph will not be anything excellent in any case and having more perspective control would not really save the day. So I can live with what the Linhof Technika IV can offer. Changing camera or carrying with me a second spacialty camera would be nonsense, but conversely it may improve your photography a lot.

If you happen to use 65mm or shorter all days with significant movements applied all of the times, well then you should really think about it. In my humble opinion, however, only a camera which allows to easy mount a bag bellows would resolve your issues in full. On internet I see pictures of the Walker Titan XL and, although just a ridicolous amount of movement was applied, the bellows are already all stretched and bent and torn.

A 65 on a 45 Technika will not focus with any recessed board, you need either the discontinued Wide Angle Focusing device or the current 65mm helical focusing mount board. The current board requires factory mounting. The Wide Angle device needs a flat Technika 69 board.

Of course a 65mm will focus with a recessed board, as the Close Focus Attachment doesn't even have a recessed lensboard, and the 65mm focuses perfectly when attached to it. I use a Close Focus Attachment as it is quite convenient to use, however other fellows mount extreme wideangles on normal or recessed lensboards and, with the front standard kept on the rails inside the body of the camera, use the rear movements to bring the image in focus. Not as convenient and quick as a Close Focus Attachment, but many people do it.

 

[Bob S]

I said that the 65 will not focus with a flat board but REQUIRES either the discontinued Wide Angle Focus Device OR the current special board with the helical for the 65mm. I further stated that the Wde Angle Focus Device requires a 69 Technika board. That board is flat.

Leaving the lens in the body and focusing with the back movements is stupid and plain poor technique as there is no way to maintain parallism, when needed and it’s most needed with extreme wide angle lenses.