Recommendations for getting into medium format?

Used Hasselblads are now quite inexpensive. They're a marvel of ergonomic engineering, built like the proverbial brick shithouse, take a plethora of superb interchangeable Zeiss lenses and they have an advantage that no TLR can boast - namely, you can put digital backs on them. That's the main reason I've kept my 'blad and lenses even though almost all of my film shooting is large format now. When I one day get a Phase One digital back for it, I'll have image quality that will blow away any full frame DSLR from Nikon or Canon. And of course I'll still be able shoot film whenever I want to.

I know many will laugh, but I used an old Ciroflex TLR to experiment with MF. I thoroughly enjoyed it. True, I'm not a professional, just shoot for my own edification, but I found that it's not necessarily the equipment that sees the photo. Here's a photo I snapped with an old Agfa Viking 6x9 folder that turned out pretty good. I used a yellow filter, 1/50 sec, f/22, Kodak Plus-X film.

Nice exposure.

TLRs can help make some nice images, some even have a 35mm adapter as well, but I found them a little awkward to use.
You are using a WLF, so the screen needs to clean and bright - also, the magnifier being good helps.
If you can - and have stores selling or renting theses, I would hop over and have a look at them. It helps to have a feel of the camera and shooting method.
A friend's Yashica 635(i think) felt too light and uncomfy to hold and use - I was just shooting with a FG that day, so I wasn't comparing it to my RB67.

Hassies are okay - I dont quite like the helical focusing, but to me the bellows focusing of the RB is what has so far been the best of it. Along with a slightly larger negative, of course.
The bulk is actually comfortable.

You might have a completely different experience, of course. (My friend happily shoots with his Yashica, for ex)

Whatever you get - and if you decide you dont like it, can easily go back on ebay or here for not too much of a loss, I suppose.

I've shot with all three major systems you're inquiring about (Rollei, Hasselblad, Mamiya RB/RZ). I had a Hasselblad system for years - loved it. One of the greatest advantages to it is the fact that it is a system - you can, with time, patience and money, find all kinds of weird specialized accessories and lenses to do just about anything. I went through a phase where I was shooting mostly large format and the Hassy was sitting unused, so I sold it on to someone who would get more use out of it. Later, I swung back and started shooting medium format again. I bought a Rolleiflex 2.8E off of Ebay for $500. It needed a good CLA (clean, lube, adjust), and my initial experience with it didn't bond us, so it sat for a while. I picked up an RB67 thinking I would shoot portraits in the studio with it. I have shot with it sporadically, but it is a camera that does not encourage spontaneity. It is a huge chunk of camera. I have only two lenses for it, the 90 and the 180. But that and three film backs (one of which is the motorized 6x7 back) weighs at least as much as my complete Hasselblad system (500C/M body, three backs, 50, 80 and 120mm lenses, AND a Superwide with the dedicated 38mm lens!). Which brings me back to the Rolleiflex.

I had it sitting around, needing a good servicing. So I bit the bullet and took it in and had it given a complete once-over. Now it sings like a canary. My concerns over its issues dissolved. I shot a bunch more with it and found that it really complements my way of seeing and shooting. I was concerned about the "limitation" of having only one lens though. I asked around here about opinions of using it as a travel camera and some kindly folks pointed me to the work of a number of famous photographers with Rolleis. I realized that the "limitation" was mostly in my mind. I've since traveled with it extensively, taking it on trips to New York, Paris and Toronto, and shot with it extensively around town here at home. It makes a good portrait camera, it is fantastic for street photography, and is one of the most portable medium format cameras short of a folder. You're not going to shoot sports/action with it, you're not going to do 1:1 macro with it, nor are you going to shoot wildlife. If those are your interest, a different camera would be better.

If you're interested in a system camera but are on a budget, look at the Kiev 88 - it's a knock-off of the Hasselblad 1600F with a focal plane shutter. Lenses for it are excellent and dirt cheap. The most recent versions of it are not ergonomically horrid, and if you get one that has been rebuilt by Hartblei or ARAX, the quality and reliability while not up to Hasselblad standards will be quite good.

My money, obviously, is on the Rolleiflex (I actually now have a matched pair of them, 2.8E models... they're nearly 60 years old and still going strong). But they're not for everyone - you may not like the ergonomics, or the twin-lens way of working. But don't let the "only one lens" consideration make you think they're limiting in some way. Look through my gallery here on APUG - if it's square, then 99% likely it was shot with a Rolleiflex.

Thanks to everyone who's replied I really appreciate your help, and it's great to hear from people who've used the cameras mentioned on the thread. Although there's a lot to take in though so I'll continue to research the cameras recommended and attempt to compare them the advantages and disadvantages, I feel like that might help my choice or at least narrow it down

In reply to Mark Barendt:

markbarendt said:

What are the characteristics of the print you want?

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I don't really have a major preference over format, I feel like 6x7 would be the most useful format for me but I also don't feel like a square format will limit me at all in how I do my photography, I'd just have to slightly adapt composure.

markbarendt said:

Next, what style of shooting will the camera be used for?

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I think most of the photography I would be doing on medium format would probably be landscapes, with some portraiture so I would probably be using a tripod most of the time or at least have one with me in case I needed it, I'd probably end up buying a monopod anyway since I'm beginning to need one for my digital camera and telephoto lens, so I would have that available too if a tripod is too difficult to carry in a certain situation.

markbarendt said:

And, what angle of view are you looking for?

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As a first lens the obvious choice is a standard lens so I'd aim to get one with whichever camera I get, while it would be nice to add a longer and shorter lens to a setup it really wouldn't bother me at first just having one lens, at least until I get used to shooting the camera I have.

Rolleicord As An "Entry Level" Camera? Also tripods!

If you are looking for a 6x6 cm. camera to begin your MF career, you could do no better than a good used later model Rolleicord. It doesn't have interchangable lens nor magazines as do some of the cameras that you have been looking at but the Xenar lens that most came with is the equal (for black & white) of any Tessar, even Planars. Using a tripod, making a 16 x 20 enlargment of the 2 1/4" square negative is a piece of cake for a Rolleicord and remember it is a TLR camera with no mirror flying up out of the way causing vibrations at certain shutter speeds like the SLRs you are looking at. As to tripods, they do two things. First they stabilize the camera (I have been told that the German word for tripod is "stabil") and secondly, they slow you down enough so that you have a chance to think about what you are doing. That is important no matter what you are doing.

I have been looking at the rolleicords and I do really like them, along with most other TLRs, and while I would like to get something more budget friendly to begin my experience with medium format I feel like if I go down that route I'll still end up wanting to get something like a Hasselblad, Mamiya etc. anyway, and if I buy a TLR beforehand I might not have enough time to save up again before the end of my school year, and I'd love to be able to use one of those systems for my projects in photography

James-EG said:

I have been looking at the rolleicords and I do really like them, along with most other TLRs, and while I would like to get something more budget friendly to begin my experience with medium format I feel like if I go down that route I'll still end up wanting to get something like a Hasselblad, Mamiya etc. anyway, and if I buy a TLR beforehand I might not have enough time to save up again before the end of my school year, and I'd love to be able to use one of those systems for my projects in photography

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The best camera type for you might depend on how much you want to use it. On one hand you have the choice of compact convenient folding cameras that you can carry easily in a jacket pocket. On the other hand you have the big boxy types that need a bag every time you go out. Convenience means you are more likely to have it with you and actually use it more.

RR

Rolleiflex/Rolleicord, Hasselblad, Contax/Yashica all use lens made by Zeiss. Zeiss is generally nice glass.

Regular Rod said:

The best camera type for you might depend on how much you want to use it. On one hand you have the choice of compact convenient folding cameras that you can carry easily in a jacket pocket. On the other hand you have the big boxy types that need a bag every time you go out. Convenience means you are more likely to have it with you and actually use it more.

RR

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I would be using the camera as much as possible and I don't get too tired of carrying around equipment if I need to, I'm used to carrying around a tripod and 400mm telephoto lens for my 60D (unfortunately without a backpack, I have yet to get one of those), a medium format camera with one lens should be pretty light compared to that! And I would rarely take them both at the same time. Also the way I see it if I did need something convenient and small I would just take my Nikon FM2n, for me situations where I need a more convenient camera are unlikely to be ones that I also really want medium format quality

I've shot with most all the cameras mentioned except the folders, which are really a good idea tho.

What I did get to try once, and which if I had the interest to return to shooting MF again, would be a Pentax 67 in one of the models with the venerable 105mm. The P2 I tried was light enough and very responsive and I loved the screen, but the previous models are cheaper and could easily fulfill your needs for an eye level 6x7 format shooter with a selection of great lenses at better prices. It's not small tho but the pic's are 6x7.

If you want an RZ67*, then buy an RZ67! You're a student, right? You're young, you can easily handle the weight and bulk. I suspect I'm twice your age and my RZ67 always comes with me for international travel, including a lap around Europe & Asia about three years ago and a wander around bits of Canada last year. Consider that if you're trying to take good photos, you need a tripod anyway. The tripod is bigger than any MF camera and possibly heavier too (unless you go carbon fibre, and that will cost as much as your camera+lens), so are you really saving much/any weight by buying a smaller camera?

A Hasselblad body may well be affordable but the good lenses are not. Go look on KEH or something and budget out a high quality 3-lens set (wide, normal, apo tele) for the two systems and you'll see what I mean. Blads are much smaller though.

If you want to try quality 6x6 on the cheap, I would recommend something like a C220 or C330. They're not as small/light as a Rolleiflex, but they are literally about 1/6 of the price, just as sharp, and you can interchange the lenses. If you don't like the parallax errors with TLR, you can sell it on again with no loss. I have a few shots from my C220 that I love, and that I probably would not have taken with the RZ, but my keeper rate from the C220 is lower because of parallax errors and the difficulty of seeing on the dim focus screen. And I have many photos from the RZ that could never be taken on a TLR.

TLRs are nice for shooting IR because the filter won't block your viewing lens. Not much in the way of any good IR films available in 120 though, so that's no longer a good argument. And a polariser is harder to use on a TLR unless you buy a Minolta and its $$$$ coupled polariser.


* I have a Pro, not Pro-II. Far cheaper, lacks the fine-focus control (who cares) and the half-stop speeds (not really a problem).

I have been looking at the rolleicords and I do really like them, along with most other TLRs, and while I would like to get something more budget friendly to begin my experience with medium format I feel like if I go down that route I'll still end up wanting to get something like a Hasselblad, Mamiya etc. anyway, and if I buy a TLR beforehand I might not have enough time to save up again before the end of my school year, and I'd love to be able to use one of those systems for my projects in photography

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Same with me! Buying a Rolleiflex T simply made me buying my SL66 some months later ;-) If it´s an SLR you need, go for it right from the start.

I bought a Kiev 60. Actually I bought several. I have used it a little, and I have enjoyed using it.

The trick to the Kiev 60 is to find a good one. Some specimens are good, and some are not, but they are so inexpensive that you can buy two or three bodies to get a good one, or you can pay extra and get one from a company that specializes in upgrading and tuning the standard camera.

There is also a variation of the camera for shooting 4.5x6cm format.

The choice of lenses is very extensive, including some Zeiss lenses as well as the less expensive Russian lenses. The lenses are interchangeable with Pentacon 6x6 cameras, and more or less interchangeable with Exakta 6x6 cameras.

It doesn't have interchangeable film backs, but the solution to that problem is to use interchangeable bodies.

I also have a Rolleicord, but I haven't used it yet.

alanrockwood said:

I bought a Kiev 60. Actually I bought several. I have used it a little, and I have enjoyed using it.

The trick to the Kiev 60 is to find a good one. Some specimens are good, and some are not, but they are so inexpensive that you can buy two or three bodies to get a good one, or you can pay extra and get one from a company that specializes in upgrading and tuning the standard camera.

There is also a variation of the camera for shooting 4.5x6cm format.

The choice of lenses is very extensive, including some Zeiss lenses as well as the less expensive Russian lenses. The lenses are interchangeable with Pentacon 6x6 cameras, and more or less interchangeable with Exakta 6x6 cameras.

It doesn't have interchangeable film backs, but the solution to that problem is to use interchangeable bodies.

I also have a Rolleicord, but I haven't used it yet.

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we is near identical bros.

733778_10151562832937505_146948927_n by a.rodriguezpix, on Flickr

20140809_231440 by a.rodriguezpix, on Flickr

If an SLR is the goal take a look at Bronica. These are basically Hasselblad clones, interchangeable backs, rugged, reliable, with fantastic Nikon glass. A bit heavier and bulkier than a Rollei but not monsters by any means.
You can get two or three of them for the price of a Hasselblad body alone not to forget that 'blad lenses are outrageously priced. Bronica lenses are outstanding and dirt cheap.

I recently bought a Bronica EC-TL outfit with Nikkor 75/f2.8 for $225.

Paul, do yourself a favor and pick up the Bronica 150mm lens. I have seen them go for less than a hundred bucks and they are an awesome portrait lens. The Nikkor 40mm is fantastic. They are more expensive and hard to find. I sold mine to a collector for $400 or $500. I can't quite remember. I have only seen one other 40mm sell on ebay. The Nikkor 50mm and 200mm lenses are also nice performers.

If you buy a Bronica, do yourself a favor and get the grip. If you have the WLF, the neckstrap will do you, but if you get a prism finder, the grip makes it a very usable camera. I have a SQ-A and would not use it without the grip, now that I have one.

I like my SQ-A (I refer to it as a "Japanese Hasselblad") but the mirror stays up after you expose, and that takes a bit of getting used to, as you have to wind before it comes down again, so your shutter is armed again. The grip has a good shutter release lock which is very helpful in this regard.

I also have a Yashica Mat. A wonderful and very usable entry camera. As are any of the folders, of which the Zeiss-Ikons are good choices, since their bellows material seems to hold up well. Pick one up at Goodwill for next to nothing.

My first MF camera was an SLR: a 2-1/4" x 3-1/4" Graflex RB series B. Once you get used to it, it's like dancing with a partner. 24 shutter speeds let you fine tune the exposure without changing the aperture. Those big 6x9 negatives spoiled me for any TLR (and frankly the revolving back-- the RB in the name-- is very cool.). Seems like the rolls I've had with the most keepers were shot with that camera.

--nosmok

nosmok said:

My first MF camera was an SLR: a 2-1/4" x 3-1/4" Graflex RB series B. Once you get used to it, it's like dancing with a partner. 24 shutter speeds let you fine tune the exposure without changing the aperture. Those big 6x9 negatives spoiled me for any TLR (and frankly the revolving back-- the RB in the name-- is very cool.). Seems like the rolls I've had with the most keepers were shot with that camera.

--nosmok

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Very cool camera, but not exactly a first thought for someone looking to get in to medium format. They're a bit esoteric, especially for someone coming from a more automated 35mm system.

There are TLR people and SLR people, I think. I'm the former and I don't understand why other people aren't, but there you have it...

Realistically, for any of the cameras that have been mentioned in this thread, the limitation in how well they work won't be the camera, it'll be your photographic skills and your comfort with the camera. (There are people who consider the RB/RZ67 to be a great casual walking-around camera, and there are people who consider 645 SLRs too bulky to hand-hold ever. I think you just need to get a camera in your hands and develop your own opinions about it, ultimately.)

The only exception might be the folders, which I think are mostly in the "cheap and cheerful" category; they have the capability for good images, obviously, but very, very few of them are going to be competitive with a 'blad or a 'flex in critical image quality, and the ones that can play in that league are pricey. By all means get a Nettar or something---they're really fun, convenient cameras capable of very good things---but I think for most people a folder won't ever be a primary "serious work" camera.

-NT

I've been using a Mamiya RB67 as my main camera for almost a year now, and I've lugged it all over the place without issue. As long as I can shoot at 1/30 second or faster I don't use a tripod, but I realize everybody is different. I believe the RZ is slightly lighter but I don't know by how much. Personally theres not another camera out there that I'd trade my RB for not even a Hasselblad.

I've been using a Mamiya RB67 as my main camera for almost a year now, and I've lugged it all over the place without issue. As long as I can shoot at 1/30 second or faster I don't use a tripod, but I realize everybody is different. I believe the RZ is slightly lighter but I don't know by how much. Personally theres not another camera out there that I'd trade my RB for not even a Hasselblad. The 6x7 negatives are amazing and slides are even cooler, not to mention the rotating back and macro abilities are nice to have. With a standard 90mm lens on the RB/RZ close focus is about 7.5 inches, with both extension tubes you get down under 3 inches.

My go to medium format when not walking (working from truck): is the Bronica EC. When planning on walking I carry a Rolleicord III or a Yashica A. for me it would be hard to pick a favorite among the three. Also have a Mamiya C330 that I never use and do not know why I still keep it, ok I maybe tend to collect cameras