Recommendations for breaking into medium format

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spl

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(tl;dr) I am looking for recommendations for an inexpensive medium format camera for occasional use when spectacular scenes present themselves, prioritising cost and image quality. Ideas appreciated.

Last year I restarted my photography hobby by switching from digital back to film. This time around I am getting much better results with 35mm and half frame than I did as a student. I credit this to simplifying the equipment and I am very fond of my PenFT and OM1. I also like to develop and repair and use a digital processing workflow.

I have wanted a medium format camera for occasional use when I want the improved quality of 120 but I am not eager to spend much on it and there's not as much choice of equipment as 35mm. This morning I was looking through pictures taken on the Holga 120N and was very impressed by some
 

campy51

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If you don't mind twin lens cameras I would recommend the Minolta Autocord or Mamiya. For slr the Bronica or Mamiya but will cost more.
 

Don_ih

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Highest quality at the best price is likely RB67. It has a great amount of versatility but it's heavy as a boat anchor. Very high quality but fixed lens Yashica TLRs are a good choice - Yashinon lenses are really good. The shutters often need service, though. Rolleicord TLRs are sometimes nicely priced but they often have dark mirrors. There are good Zeiss and Agfa medium format folders, often low price - the Agfa/Ansco ones often have completely glued-up focusing helicoids, though, due to their choice of lubricants. And all folders may have slightly bent parts and pinholes in the bellows (Agfa almost guaranteed to have them).
 

Donald Qualls

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Don Heisz said:
Highest quality at the best price is likely RB67.
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I'll second that. They've gone up over the past couple years because the word got out, but the lenses are really, really good, they're all mechanical so no-warning failures are uncommon and any competent camera repairer should be able to fix one presuming parts can be found. The 2x3 Graflok mount means you can use any 2x3 accessory, whether it was intended for an RB67 or not (I have a ProS; a ProSD may require some effort to override the double exposure interlock in the body). I have 6x4.5, 6x6 (Gralfex 22), 6x7, and 6x9 (Graflex 23) roll backs I can use with mine, and if 2x3 film were more readily available, I'd be tempted to get a 2x3 Grafmatic. For the price of a bare Hasselblad body (no lens, no film back, no viewfinder or waist level only) you can get an RB, two or three lenses, two or three film backs, and either a chimney or prism finder on top of the waist level that came with it. IMO, the RB67 is the most versatile camera around, barring only (perhaps) a Speed Graphic.
 

Dan Daniel

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if you are willing to take some chances, low-cost folders and TLRs are your best bet. The issue with medium format these days is that the choices have bifurcated with most of the low-hanging fruit already picked off. The SLRs and TLRs of high quality and working are not cheap. Folders and TLRs of low cost are often not functional. Agfa Isolettes, Zeiss Ikontas. Ciroflex. Two camera worth looking out for are the Fujica Six and the Konica Pearl. Both have quality lenses. Both can be had for $150-200 on Ebay. BUT almost always from Japan, and those dealers live in a different dimension where EXCELLENT MINT ++++ means only a few light leaks and scratches and missing skin sections. Be sure to buy from someone who will pay for return shipping as the odds are that it will take a few times before you get the camera you want.

Pinhole camera, also. Go to Blue Moon Cameras web site and see what they have to say.

Probably your best bet is the classifieds of places like this, rangefinderforum, etc. People here are not dealers. Keep an eye on the 'for sale' section and post an ad in the 'wanted to buy' section. The internet is full of forums and such where a relatively small group is known to each other and being honest is to be expected. Actual users in places like this are much more likely to sell you a camera that, well, can actually be used.

From the comments above, obviously people have different concepts of what 'not eager to spend much' and 'impressed by [Holga 120]' mean. But this is partly driven by them knowing that trying to go cheap on medium format is a long tortuous path with lots of bad cameras. Whatever level you decide on, your best bet will be to get something, anything, at your price from someone who knows how cameras work. The risks and learning curve can be steep on Ebay and such.

By the way, if you think Holga shots are impressive I think your first roll of 120 film from a 'real' camera is going to floor you. Be careful, it can be addictive, the detail and rich tonality
 

Alan9940

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If you want something pocketable, I'd take a look at a Mamiya 6 Automat, Perkeo, or one of the Isolettes. For a TLR, I'd look at the Minolta Autocord, Yasicha Mat 124G, one of the later model Rolleicords, or a Rolleiflex 3.5.
 

Paul Howell

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I would think about a Mamiya 645, a bit smaller than a RB 67, shoots 16 exposures on a roll of 120 film, great lens line up, as it uses a focal plane shutter built into the body lens are less expensive as well. With a RB 67 each lens has it's own leaf shutter. Second thought for TLR in addition to Yashcia and Minolta TLR with fixed 80mm lens, Mamiya C220 with interchangeable lens.
 

Saganich

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Yea, all good recommendations, ranging from easily fitting in your pocket to needing a horse cart. I've used most of them and have my keepers, which seem to lean towards what fits in my pocket. The 6x6, 6x9 Agfa folders are great and the non-rangefinder Record II are not too expensive, but getting a good one can be troublesome.
 

Don_ih

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Agfa bellows seemed to be made from the same paper they used to wrap photo paper.
 

Donald Qualls

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Paul Howell said:
With a RB 67 each lens has it's own leaf shutter.
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Yes, this originally did increase the cost of lenses -- but it also means if you have a shutter issue you can just swap lenses and improvise a little on focal length (tele adapter on next shorter, perhaps) to finish your shoot. Get a shutter problem with a TLR (or M645), and you're done (at least with that camera for that day).

And my 6x4.5 back (original RB67 Pro type) shoots 16 on a roll, too. Plus, I can switch in mid-roll. Let's see you do that with an M645.
 

250swb

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Yashicamat 124 or Minolta Autocord (buy from a dealer) would be my choices as starter cameras. I don't think it's good to think about changing lenses or getting into heavy cumbersome equipment as your first MF camera, but a TLR can either be used hand held or on a tripod and you'll get excellent quality in either case. As you won't be investing too much cash you may sleep easier at night and enjoy the camera. And if you like the look of Holga images you should get one of those as well.
 

Sirius Glass

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Most of the usual suspects are listed above. It is best if you can see the camera before you buy it, but today that is rare. Have they checked over the camera? Shot a roll of film recently? When was the camera last serviced? Can you return it?

How will the camera fit in your hands? If your hands are large and the camera is small that can be a problem. If your hands are small and the camera is large that can be a problem too.
 

Donald Qualls

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Sirius Glass

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With the Mamiya Cxx line I recommend the 55mm, 80mm and 250mm lenses. The 65mm lens which I had was too close to the 80mm lens and I would have used a 55mm lens more.
 

Kodachromeguy

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Dan Daniel said:
Both can be had for $150-200 on Ebay. BUT almost always from Japan, and those dealers live in a different dimension where EXCELLENT MINT ++++ means only a few light leaks and scratches and missing skin sections.
Click to expand...
If you want a camera or lens from Japan, Mr Kumar, who often lists items for sale here, is your hero. Send them a message and ask him what he can find in the price range that you're interested in.
 

markbau

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If you just want to dip your toe into the medium format world I'd definitely look at the Mamiya twin lens cameras. I wouldn't consider 645 format, it's not a big enough upsize from 35mm but with all the drawbacks of MF. A Mamiya twin will not cost too much and let you see if MF is for you.
 

Alan Edward Klein

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What is your budget? What types of pictures do you shoot? (landscape, portraits, indoor with flash, etc? ) Does your current scanner work with 120 film? If not, you have to budget additional dollars for a scanner as well. Without knowing these answers, it's hard to recommend anything.
 

Sirius Glass

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I agree that 1) 645 is not much of a change from 35mm and is not worth the effort and 2) the Mamiya Cx, Cxx or Cxxx is quite a capable interchangeable lens camera, its built in bellows allow one to take amazing close ups without any additional equipment. Also at least the C3s have a built in parallax indicator which is quite accurate and remarkable.
 

Pieter12

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The difference between 645 and 35mm is big enough to make as much difference as 6x6, especially if you end up cropping from square to a standard paper size, as 645 is directly proportional/ Even 35mm ends up being cropped a bit if you want to fill the sheet.

 

Sirius Glass

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I disagree. 645 just perpetuates the same photography that 35mm does since the format is effectively the same. Going larger and changing the format to square makes one thing square and allows one to also crop to rectangular as the composition requires. If one is just going to do take exactly the same photograph forever why bother to change the camera? One should stretch, reach, change to see how they can grow and what they can learn. Are you saying that Ansel Adams, Edward Weston, and Henri Cartier-Bresson should have stock with box cameras their whole lives. Get out of your shell, live and explore. After all there is only one perfect format and we all know that that is square.
 

rulnacco

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Just to give you some background, I currently own and use an RZ67, a couple of Hasselblad V series cameras, and a Rolleiflex TLR. I have owned (but no longer own) an RB67, a trio of Mamiya TLRs, a FujiGW690II, and (very briefly) a Mamiya Press. So I do have a little experience with medium format.

The RB/RZ67s are great cameras. But they're getting very expensive, particularly the RZ, and they're ginormous and heavy. Hasselblads are fantastic--but again, becoming silly expensive. Rolleiflexes? You don't wanna even talk about 'em nowadays if you're just starting medium format.

Honestly, the system I miss the most--and fondle lovingly whenever I find one in a camera shop, where they're occasionally still found at reasonable prices--is the Mamiya TLR system. Particularly the C220f or C330f, they're fantastically good cameras, and great value for money. (An ancient Mamiya C3 was *my* first medium format camera; my second and third were the two models I mentioned just previously.)

Compared to many MF systems, they're actually quite light and compact, given they're not SLRs and so no mirror mechanism to deal with. You can pack a body with an 80mm 2.8 (another advantage--fast normal lens), a 55mm and a 180mm in a relatively small bag and have practically all your needs covered. So if you're wanting to shoot 6x6 (meaning you can crop vertical or horizontal and not have to worry about flipping a body on its side), have interchangeable lenses, and want an extremely quiet and responsive system with no mirror blackout/vibration, that system is wonderful. Heck, it was good enough for Diane Arbus, it's good enough for us mortals.

And although I've not owned anything in this format (and have only shot it a couple of times), you can actually find good 645 gear at reasonable prices. Particularly the Mamiya and Pentax systems. They do have an advantage in that if you're gong to print rectangular, the frame is already pretty close to the ratio you'll need; you get the most exposures (16) on a roll of any medium format; they're SLRs, so may be easier to get used to vs. a waist level finder, and you can use a prism finder on them, if you prefer eye-level shooting, without the cameras getting uncomfortably large and heavy. (I'm sorry, and no offence intended, but I find some of the railing against 645 above--particularly if you are planning on printing on standard paper--to be balderdash and codswallop.)

If I ever do buy something else in medium format to play around with, it's probably going to be either a Mamiya or Pentax 645 camera, they do look fun. And they'll produce fantastically good images, too.
 

ic-racer

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I'd recommend a TLR, such as Yashica, Rolleicord, or the other TLRs mentioned.
 
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