Recommendations for 110/16mm/8x11/APS cameras with tele lens and flash

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Bim Boni

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I'd like to start subminiature photography and am currently looking for a camera that matches the following criteria:

(1) subminiature format, e.g. 110, 16mm, minox 8x11 or APS
(2) built in flash (or attachable flash unit, but it still has to fit into a trouser pocket)
(3) lens > 30mm, either switchable from normal focal length or zoom

Please post any cameras you know of that meet these requirements.

I believe the majority of cameras matching these criteria have fixed exposure. What is your experience with those, are they actually usable in varying light circumstances?
 

ciniframe

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Well lets see;
Nothing in Minox
In 16mm? Only ones I know that can take a telephoto are the rare FSU Narciss, but lenses other than the normal are ultra rare and certainly not pocketable. The Steky, and later Golden Ricoh, not near as rare but still uncommon. Not pocketable with 40mm tele mounted.
In110? Many choices but usually if built in lenses very slow and fixed exposure limitations. The Pentax 110 SLR has both wide and tele interchangeable lenses and a zoom is also available. It is the most refined with auto exposure only and is still fairly common. There are two models. The Kodak Tele-Ektra 2 has built in 22mm and 44mm f5.6, 3 element lenses which were really quite good. It is the most pocketable.
APS? Forget it, that film size has not been made for years.
Check out submin.com for all kinds of information about subminiature cameras.
 

Donald Qualls

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I was going to suggest one of the Tele-Ektra models as well. 110 film isn't hard to get, though not cheap (Fukkatsu is spotty quality, but Lomography seems quite good), and it's technically possible to reload the cartridges

Google isn't showing me any Tele-Ektra models with built-in flash, but they took Flip Flash and it ought to be possible to find one of the electronic flash units that plugged into that mount. Both pieces are nicely pocketable when the flash is dismounted.
 
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Bim Boni

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The Tele-Ektra looks interesting to me, after all it provides 4 different shutter speeds.

I found out that there is the rare AF100P mini flash unit for the Pentax, the standard flash unit is quite huge. But even the AF100P is 63 x 49 x 48.5 mm, so not really pocketable.

I thought about choosing a flashless camera and attach a tiny flash onto the hot shoe, there was a crowdfunding project about a very tiny flash (Moon Tiny Flash). but it never made it to production. I'm not aware of any existing flash units of that size.

I also realised that there are very slim 35mm rangefinders which are actually pocketable and have a flash, like the Minolta TC-1 (99 x 59 x 29.5 mm), which lacks the telephoto lens though.

APS is also still an option for me as I still find bundles of expired APS film on ebay and I found a guide how to process it.
 
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xya

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You are right about the 35mm cameras. They can be quite small and even have a good zoom lens like this one https://www.135compact.com/konica_lexio_70.htm . On the site there are more to compare. For 110 format I would still recommend the Pentax Auto 110 Super. Put it into your pocket with the 18mm wide lens and the 50mm into the other pocket https://www.subcompactcam.com/110_pentax_auto.htm . There are more on that site and a size comparison of some of them https://www.subcompactcam.com/110_size.htm
 
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Bim Boni

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Thanks for your answers

I realise that my previous reply has just been accepted by the moderators, so you couldn't read it until now. The Pentax seems to be bulky to me with the AF100P flash attached. But as all of you speak out for it I assume that it can fit into a trouser pocket (this is important to me, I want to take it virtually anywhere).
 

Bronson Dugnutt

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For single-perf 16mm, a Rollei 16(s) w/ 1.7x Tele-mutar and flash bulb attachment would fit the bill. The Minolta MG-s and QT offer a hot shoe attachment for electronic flash (earlier models have a bare PC sync connector), but you'd have to hand hold an appropriate teleconverter.

Dual lens 110 telephoto models are plentiful and most offer built-in flash. Various 110 SLRs could also suffice, depending on the dimensions of your pockets.

I believe the majority of cameras matching these criteria have fixed exposure. What is your experience with those, are they actually usable in varying light circumstances?

Subminiature cameras often have some combination fixed shutter speed, fixed aperture, or fixed focus. If you're interested in achieving optimal results it really forces you to consider the selection of film, how it is processed, and the subject in question. In my experience, the most flexibility comes from a camera with manual exposure control; there are ways to compensate for a fixed focus lens but a well-exposed frame should always be the camera's goal.

Edit: Some Rollei 16 pontification here: http://photo-analogue.blogspot.com/2017/11/rollei-16.html
 
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Craig75

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In 110 apart from the lovely pentax is the minolta 110 zoom.

16mm you can get interchangeable lens cameras - Meopta, steky, gami (and others) but often not cheap and some are bigger than a 35mm point and shoot.

Yashica samurai is half frame 35mm camera with zoom.
 

ciniframe

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The Kodak Tele Ektra 2 had a electronic flash with a proprietary mount. It could be removed and a swing over hard case clipped in it’s place. There is an image of it on camera-wiki.org but that is about all, no technical info included.
Didn’t Olympus make a 35mm PnS that had two lenses, one on top of the other? The top lens was the wide/normal and then you could select the tele lens which slid a couple of first surface mirrors into place to deliver the image to the film gate. I don’t think the second lens was much of a tele, maybe 60-70mm or like that. They are not very common.

edit; Got it! Called the AF Twin or AF1 Twin, the two lenses were 35mm and 70mm and the tele lens was on top. There are a bunch on ebay out of Japan so real expensive shipping. But, it is compact with a built in flash. Can’t seem to find spec’s on the lenses though.
 
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Bim Boni

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The Olympus AF1 Twin you suggested is interesting because of the water resistance feature, though the camera is too thick for me (2" thickness).

I found out that the Kodalux 1, 2 and 3 are small electronic flash units that can be attached to the Tele-Instamatic's flipflash socket, so I guess it should be possible to use them with any camera with a flipflash socket. So with a Kodalux flash you can turn a flipflash 110 camera (perhaps even 126, but this would grow too big for a trouser pocket I guess) into an electronic flash camera, still quite pocketable. The Kodalux flashes are plenty on ebay.

I'm looking to find these cameras now and try them out:
  • Tele-Ektra, Tele-Ektralite or Tele-Instamatic models
  • Minolta Autopak 460T or 460TX
  • Agfamatic 4008 tele, there is the attachable Agfamatic pocket LUX 234 flash unit with an for that size incredible guide number of 20
  • And finally the Konica Lexio as a pocketable 35mm camera (I actually love the lofi aesthetics caused by the small 110 negative size, so choosing 35mm in terms of resolution is not my point, but what I like about 35mm is the narrower depth of field, in 110 you don't get comparable sharpness gradients)
 
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