Recommendation on filter for slide film

[Hubigpielover]

So I've read a lot of differing opinions on what type of filter to use for taking slide film pictures. I want to try out some Velvia and Provia before it is gone. What filter should i use?

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

Polarizer and variable neutral density for landscapes. Don't overdo the polarizer with Velvia. Adjust it about half way or don;t use it depending on the lighting.

 

[Hubigpielover]

Polarizer and variable neutral density for landscapes. Don't overdo the polarizer with Velvia. Adjust it about half way or don;t use it depending on the lighting.

Thanks for the tips. Could you expand on the polarizer and not over doing it?

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

These are my Velvia 50. Most had no filter at all. I've never used Provia.
https://www.flickr.com/search/?sort...1&tags=velvia&user_id=55760757@N05&view_all=1

 

[iandvaag]

A graduated ND filter is super useful in helping to fit the entire scene into the limited dynamic range of slide film. This is only applicable to landscape-type photography, where the upper portion of your image (sky) is significantly brighter than the lower portion of the image.

Some people use a mild warming filter (e.g. 81A) when shooting Provia in the shade, otherwise it can go quite blue.

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

Thanks for the tips. Could you expand on the polarizer and not over doing it?

The polarizer reduces reflections on leaves and grass. That saturates the color green. Velvia already strongly saturates the green colors. You do not want to overdo it or it will look phony. So after you put the filter on the lens, turn it from zero polarizing to max, about 90 degrees. You'll see how the effect changes. Then pick a spot where it's not too unnatural. Try a few different shots and different polarizing strengths of the same view the first time so you can compare the results on the slide and determine what you prefer. Reminder that you have to adjust the exposure as a polarizing lens reduces the light 1 to 2 stops depending where you set it.

Also, polarizers darken blue skies bringing out clouds. It's very dramatic and lovely. Be careful though with wide angle lenses. Because a polarizer gets more effect depending on the angle of the part of the sky to the sun, the sky varies in its depth of blue. So you want to shoot a longer lens either regular or telephoto to reduce the amount of sky in the photo. Wide angles could take in too much sky cause this varying blue sky look.

One other thing, don't tighten the polarizer or any filter too tight. Sometimes they can be a problem removing because they get stuck.

 

[Arklatexian]

So I've read a lot of differing opinions on what type of filter to use for taking slide film pictures. I want to try out some Velvia and Provia before it is gone. What filter should i use?

You might remember that where you and I live, a hazy sky is going to be caused by "water" droplets in the atmosphere, not by the ultraviolet light found out West in higher altitudes so it will probably take a polarizing filter to cut through it. Skylight and clear glass filters won't help much. For most slide photography here in Louisiana, I've not used any filters. In a dry climate and at high altitudes, things are different.........Regards!

 

[Poisson Du Jour]

Close to 99% of my work with Velvia is with polarisers (I use Provia in pinhole cameras). When Alan said to avoid overdoing it with a polariser, I think he was referring to the fact that generally Velvia does not need a polariser to enhance its colour or saturation; using a polariser on a bright sunny day will over-saturate the primaries and make Velvia look garish and cooky. It is also not the best film for people photography because it accentuates ruddy tones e.g. pink faces become red!

It's worth remembering that Velvia is designed for exposure in diffuse illumination, that is, hazy to soft light...even overcast light. The use of a polariser in soft light must be carefully modulated to ensure that the effect does not "kill" the scene by completely flattening the light and making everything look quite dull (another reference to what Alan said, and a very common problem amongst beginners using slide film and polarisers for the first time. If you are using an all-manual camera, you will need to ensure there is an extra 1.5 to 2 stops added to the exposure depending on the effect of the polariser and the quality of the prevailing illumination e.g. light hazy illumination where shadows are soft and detail is visible will be OK with around +1.5 stops with a polariser to set to full. In flat, overcast light, a higher compensation of +2.0 stops will prevent the dreaded "kill-off" of both underexposure and a very dull rendition of the scene. In camera meters must also be instructed to provide additional exposure over what they meter.
The exact additional exposure for polarisation is something you must experiment with using your polariser -- the figures are only a guide, and in fact in my case hold true only because my photography is manually-metered, not metered in-camera, and the figures arrived at through years of experience are ideal for my situations using Velvia, but possibly not yours!

A polariser isn't the be-all and end-all, and shouldn't be the only filter in the kit. In early morning and evening light (before/during sunrise and before/after sunset), a polariser will only lengthen the exposure and result in reciprocity problems with Velvia. At these times, you can simply use a Skylight 1B (for evening light which is rendered quite blue on slide film) or a UV(0) for morning light. A skylight 1B filter has a light to moderate pink appearance to it while UV and UV(0) (the exact designation you find printed on filters is not of particular relevance) cut through haze.

While the above may sound onerous and complicated, an essential task to using slide film effectively is to expose it through many common scenarios that you (not others!) photograph and observe the results e.g. on a lightbox. This applies to any photography with or without a polariser, as Velvia as a very contrasty and enriched film in terms of colour, is quite unforgiving of small errors and does require a fairly good knowledge of exposure to get the best results -- it will take time! Provia on the other hand is a lot more graceful with exposure, but it is still an E6 film and still has a few of the characteristics that can be a boon or a bummer e.g. shooting in bright sun in the shadows will result in a scene that is very heavy with blue. "Warming" filters can be used to counteract this affect but they can also introduce a fake appearance to the overall image.

You should also take notes of your exposures, particularly when you are using a polariser, as errors will undoubtedly occur during the learning phase and your notes, read back at the time of viewing the slides on the lightbox, will help you understanding where you went wrong and what you will need to do in the future. Don't expect a gold mine of stellar results on your first roll, but more likely many rolls after that!

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

Gary's giving you some terrific advice. He's much more experienced that I am. Here's a link to shots I took with the polarizer at maximum. Although these were taken on a digital camera, it shows what happens when you overdo polarizing. It overdoes the saturation and stripped any reflective life out of the foliage. In retrospect, a lighter touch would have been better. Use the polarizer gently not as a sledge hammer like these.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/alanklein2000/5345028154/in/album-72157625671136053/

One other thing I do with my landscape shots is bracket exposure. It's cheap insurance especially if you're using a polarizer and/or shooting when the light is changing rapidly or hard to measure like during the "magic hour" - the one hour after sunrise and one hour before sunset. It's very difficult to measure the light correctly, well for me anyway.

 

[Hubigpielover]

These are my Velvia 50. Most had no filter at all. I've never used Provia.
https://www.flickr.com/search/?sort=date-taken-desc&safe_search=1&tags=velvia&user_id=55760757@N05&view_all=1

Those look nice. I think I could use no filters.

A graduated ND filter is super useful in helping to fit the entire scene into the limited dynamic range of slide film. This is only applicable to landscape-type photography, where the upper portion of your image (sky) is significantly brighter than the lower portion of the image.

Some people use a mild warming filter (e.g. 81A) when shooting Provia in the shade, otherwise it can go quite blue.

I plan to do a lot of photos in Grand Isle, La which would be landscape but I do want to get some buildings in it what filter would I use to get buildings and landscape.

The polarizer reduces reflections on leaves and grass. That saturates the color green. Velvia already strongly saturates the green colors. You do not want to overdo it or it will look phony. So after you put the filter on the lens, turn it from zero polarizing to max, about 90 degrees. You'll see how the effect changes. Then pick a spot where it's not too unnatural. Try a few different shots and different polarizing strengths of the same view the first time so you can compare the results on the slide and determine what you prefer. Reminder that you have to adjust the exposure as a polarizing lens reduces the light 1 to 2 stops depending where you set it.

Also, polarizers darken blue skies bringing out clouds. It's very dramatic and lovely. Be careful though with wide angle lenses. Because a polarizer gets more effect depending on the angle of the part of the sky to the sun, the sky varies in its depth of blue. So you want to shoot a longer lens either regular or telephoto to reduce the amount of sky in the photo. Wide angles could take in too much sky cause this varying blue sky look.

One other thing, don't tighten the polarizer or any filter too tight. Sometimes they can be a problem removing because they get stuck.

That helps me understand. I appreciate the advice.

You might remember that where you and I live, a hazy sky is going to be caused by "water" droplets in the atmosphere, not by the ultraviolet light found out West in higher altitudes so it will probably take a polarizing filter to cut through it. Skylight and clear glass filters won't help much. For most slide photography here in Louisiana, I've not used any filters. In a dry climate and at high altitudes, things are different.........Regards!

Glad to get some local advice. Have you ever shot slide film in Grand Isle? Wondering how to handle that.

Close to 99% of my work with Velvia is with polarisers (I use Provia in pinhole cameras). When Alan said to avoid overdoing it with a polariser, I think he was referring to the fact that generally Velvia does not need a polariser to enhance its colour or saturation; using a polariser on a bright sunny day will over-saturate the primaries and make Velvia look garish and cooky. It is also not the best film for people photography because it accentuates ruddy tones e.g. pink faces become red!

It's worth remembering that Velvia is designed for exposure in diffuse illumination, that is, hazy to soft light...even overcast light. The use of a polariser in soft light must be carefully modulated to ensure that the effect does not "kill" the scene by completely flattening the light and making everything look quite dull (another reference to what Alan said, and a very common problem amongst beginners using slide film and polarisers for the first time. If you are using an all-manual camera, you will need to ensure there is an extra 1.5 to 2 stops added to the exposure depending on the effect of the polariser and the quality of the prevailing illumination e.g. light hazy illumination where shadows are soft and detail is visible will be OK with around +1.5 stops with a polariser to set to full. In flat, overcast light, a higher compensation of +2.0 stops will prevent the dreaded "kill-off" of both underexposure and a very dull rendition of the scene. In camera meters must also be instructed to provide additional exposure over what they meter.
The exact additional exposure for polarisation is something you must experiment with using your polariser -- the figures are only a guide, and in fact in my case hold true only because my photography is manually-metered, not metered in-camera, and the figures arrived at through years of experience are ideal for my situations using Velvia, but possibly not yours!

A polariser isn't the be-all and end-all, and shouldn't be the only filter in the kit. In early morning and evening light (before/during sunrise and before/after sunset), a polariser will only lengthen the exposure and result in reciprocity problems with Velvia. At these times, you can simply use a Skylight 1B (for evening light which is rendered quite blue on slide film) or a UV(0) for morning light. A skylight 1B filter has a light to moderate pink appearance to it while UV and UV(0) (the exact designation you find printed on filters is not of particular relevance) cut through haze.

While the above may sound onerous and complicated, an essential task to using slide film effectively is to expose it through many common scenarios that you (not others!) photograph and observe the results e.g. on a lightbox. This applies to any photography with or without a polariser, as Velvia as a very contrasty and enriched film in terms of colour, is quite unforgiving of small errors and does require a fairly good knowledge of exposure to get the best results -- it will take time! Provia on the other hand is a lot more graceful with exposure, but it is still an E6 film and still has a few of the characteristics that can be a boon or a bummer e.g. shooting in bright sun in the shadows will result in a scene that is very heavy with blue. "Warming" filters can be used to counteract this affect but they can also introduce a fake appearance to the overall image.

You should also take notes of your exposures, particularly when you are using a polariser, as errors will undoubtedly occur during the learning phase and your notes, read back at the time of viewing the slides on the lightbox, will help you understanding where you went wrong and what you will need to do in the future. Don't expect a gold mine of stellar results on your first roll, but more likely many rolls after that!

Thank you for a well written out response. It helped understand filters and slide film better.

Gary's giving you some terrific advice. He's much more experienced that I am. Here's a link to shots I took with the polarizer at maximum. Although these were taken on a digital camera, it shows what happens when you overdo polarizing. It overdoes the saturation and stripped any reflective life out of the foliage. In retrospect, a lighter touch would have been better. Use the polarizer gently not as a sledge hammer like these.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/alanklein2000/5345028154/in/album-72157625671136053/

One other thing I do with my landscape shots is bracket exposure. It's cheap insurance especially if you're using a polarizer and/or shooting when the light is changing rapidly or hard to measure like during the "magic hour" - the one hour after sunrise and one hour before sunset. It's very difficult to measure the light correctly, well for me anyway.

That is one thing that I always do. Bracket, bracket, bracket.


Thanks everyone for you advice. As always, glad to be a member of APUG

 

[Hatchetman]

Hmmmmm. Hmmmm. If you want to do this right, you need color correction filters for different light temperatures. This is a relatively complicated subject. Surprised one of the old-timers has not chimed in. I use an 81A for overcast and 82A for late afternoon, early morning sun. I remember one time I shot my fair skinned daughter with Velvia in the morning sun sans filter and she came out candy apple red.
Here's just one piece of info:
https://tiffen.com/film-enhancement/

 

[destroya]

I use an 81b for provia and an 81a for velvia 50. nothing on the remaining astia I have

 

[zen_zanon]

I use an 81A filter for both Provia and Velvia 50 / 100 in all lighting conditions to warm them up a tad. I don't mess with polarizers.

 

[Hubigpielover]

Hmmmmm. Hmmmm. If you want to do this right, you need color correction filters for different light temperatures. This is a relatively complicated subject. Surprised one of the old-timers has not chimed in. I use an 81A for overcast and 82A for late afternoon, early morning sun. I remember one time I shot my fair skinned daughter with Velvia in the morning sun sans filter and she came out candy apple red.
Here's just one piece of info:
https://tiffen.com/film-enhancement/

I use an 81b for provia and an 81a for velvia 50. nothing on the remaining astia I have

I use an 81A filter for both Provia and Velvia 50 / 100 in all lighting conditions to warm them up a tad. I don't mess with polarizers.

It looks like I will just have to experiment with filters and film.

Thanks everyone.

 

[Dismayed]

A skylight filter will clean up shadows that would be bluish if left unfiltered. That's because shadows are illuminated by a blue light source - the sky.

 

[Sirius Glass]

Skylight and UV filters take the UV light out of the spectrum that exposes the film, thus reducing distant haze. No filters remove overcast from skies. Skylight filters add some warmth for proper color balance which is a matter of taste.

 

[Heinz]

For my remaining stock of Fuji Provia 400 X I use a KR3 = 81C filter if not in morning or evening dawn - otherwise its colors seem to cold for me, and only in dawn I need the full 400 ASA (the KR3 has a filter factor of 1,2). With AGFAPHOTO CT precisa 100 I do not use a filter, since it is generally warmer.

 

[Truzi]

I think deciding whether to filter, and which filter to use, would depend on the scene.

At the risk of giving examples of something I know nothing about, here are some photos on Velvia 50 with no filter.
These were taken in 2010 at Whiteface Mountain in the Adirondacks, New York. This is the first time I used Velvia.

(Sears KS-2 (Ricoh XR-7) 35mm camera, pro-shop consumer-level scans; I de-rezed and re-sized in The GIMP. Also, I just take snapshots, so obviously my composition and exposure are not great.)

The first is the trail leading up Whiteface Mountain, I think it's okay without a filter, though it could stand a little warming.

The second is looking back down the trail, I think a skylight filter may have helped (also note the mid-frame light leak).

On the third, although a bit contrasty, I'm not sure if a filter would have been an improvement.

 

[Sirius Glass]

I think deciding whether to filter, and which filter to use, would depend on the scene.

At the risk of giving examples of something I know nothing about, here are some photos on Velvia 50 with no filter.
These were taken in 2010 at Whiteface Mountain in the Adirondacks, New York. This is the first time I used Velvia.

(Sears KS-2 (Ricoh XR-7) 35mm camera, pro-shop consumer-level scans; I de-rezed and re-sized in The GIMP. Also, I just take snapshots, so obviously my composition and exposure are not great.)

The first is the trail leading up Whiteface Mountain, I think it's okay without a filter, though it could stand a little warming.

View attachment 203240




The second is looking back down the trail, I think a skylight filter may have helped (also note the mid-frame light leak).

View attachment 203241




On the third, although a bit contrasty, I'm not sure if a filter would have been an improvement.

View attachment 203242

Absolutely correct, the use of filters is situationally dependent. This first photograph could have used a lens hood or a shield to remove the iris image in the photograph.

 

[Poisson Du Jour]

A filter to straighten the horizon is the first priority...

 

[MattKing]

A filter to straighten the horizon is the first priority...

I have a feeling that if I climbed up that trail, I wouldn't be perfectly vertical either....

 

[DREW WILEY]

Sometimes a pale pink skylight filter can be helpful with distant scenes at high altitude; but my opinion about polarizers and neutral grads is that they always make
things look fake, always. A warming filter like an 81A can be useful to correct the excess blue of overcast skies or deep blue shade, though many people like the
effect of excess blue in chrome films. However, I'd never routinely leave a warming filter over the lens for this kind of film unless you want an amber Godfather
Movie look - which we've had naturally here the last few days due to forest fire smoke overlying coastal fog. Pretty; but too much falling white ash in the air to get
it all over camera gear.

 

[Luis-F-S]

So I've read a lot of differing opinions on what type of filter to use for taking slide film pictures. I want to try out some Velvia and Provia before it is gone. What filter should i use?

None! Just meter and take the picture. You'd learn more by getting off the computer and taking pictures! Is Hubig Pies back in business after the fire? L

 

[ericdan]

Provia needs 81a or at least a skylight filter to take the blue cast out. At sunrise/sunset, which is what the film is probably designed for, you don't need any filters.
Velvia 50 requires the same filter, but the blue cast is a little less apparent.
Velvia 100 is fine without. That film has a magenta cast anyways.
I shoot these films in Tokyo, results may vary with location.
But the above recommendations are also in Fujifilm's pdf instructions for the films.

 

[darkroommike]

You can use an 81a or a Tiffen 812 in shade, and there is such a thing as a "Moose" warm polarizer which combines an 81a and a polarizer in one mount. The Moose is named after a famous wildlife photographer.