Recommendation On A MF Folding Rangefinder

[pete_mod]

I am looking to purchase a MF folder (old or new). I'm going to Europe later this year and the size of those cameras I think would be ideal for traveling. I have a Rolleiflex TLR, however they are a little slower to work with in regards to focusing and a little more cumbersome (for me at least)

I'm somewhat familiar with whats out there, but I wanted to get some first person opinions.

Here is my checklist:

1. Nice viewfinder (preferably with frame lines), however I will make an exception for a old Bessa.
2. Fast(er) lens with smooth and pleasant bokeh
3. Nice build quality. Something that is a nice to hold as it is to shoot with.

Right now I am leaning towards a Bessa with maybe a Heliar as I hear that is a great lens and the 'mystique' of the brand is appealing (Rolleiflex of folders?). However, the Certo 6 also looks like a great camera...

Let me know what you guys think.

 

[guangong]

If you want to depend on batteries and electronics you may investigate the various Fuji folders. I have a 6x7 and 645. I find the 645 awkward for landscape orientation. For battery free reliable operation I use a ZI super ikonta B with 2.8 Tessar lens. Get a late post war camera with 1/500 sec speed dial and coated lens. This camera has the same 6x6 negative as you rolleiflex and can deliver excellent results. However, with this camera do'nt forget the lens shade. Once a hard to get item but check out the Chinese lens shades on that big auction house. I just bought lens shades for all of my old contax lenses (50,85,135 and 35) for far less than original shades would cost. The super ikonta b is pocketable if your jacket can support the weight. Nonetheless, Pete, other responders to your thread will present their favorites with reasons why. Enjoy your trip. On the other hand, why not just take thr rollei?

 

[02Pilot]

What's your budget? The price range of folders varies widely. A good Bessa II with a Heliar is going to set you back quite a sum.

What format? 6x6 will give you what you're familiar with from the Rolleiflex. Do you have experience with 6x9 or 6x4.5? Do you want to learn another format before your trip?

What do you intend to shoot with it? Most folders are not exactly easy to use quickly. For street photography I'd rather use the Rolleiflex, but for more static subjects a folder should be OK. The 6x9 cameras are not small, though.

I've traveled in Europe with a Voigtländer Perkeo II, which is a tiny 6x6 folder (no RF, though). This worked well, but it still requires a much more deliberate shooting process than a 35mm camera.

 

[pete_mod]

Thanks for the replies thus far.

@guangong what is the viewfinder like on the Ikonta? I'd prefer something older and mechanical over something newer and electronic. However I usually end up going for the one that is the best deal when hunting for a camera.

In regards to budget I'd like to keep it under $1500. I think right now the Bessa II with a Heliar is near the top of my list, however I don't know what it is like to shoot with. Anyone know what the viewfinder is like? I have a Contax IIIa, and I suspect the viewfinder is similar?

In regards to format I'd like to keep it at 6x6-6x9. The camera would be used mainly for landscapes, but I also want to shoot some portraits of my family so shallow DOF with pleasant bokeh is important to me.

 

[locutus]

Usually folders of that era do not have nice viewfinders. One option for a folder with a okay combined viewfinder is the soviet Iskra.

 

[02Pilot]

There's a world of difference between shooting 6x6 and shooting 6x9. Just because you're comfortable with one doesn't mean the other will come naturally.

The VF on the Bessa II is small. It's not the most natural camera to shoot with - the shutter release is on the door and actuated with the left hand; it's a complex mechanism that can bind up if it's not clean and lubricated. The front standards can become bent, which causes asymmetrical edge softness. All that said, it's very capable, but condition matters enormously. With such a large budget, however, you should be able to get one and have it CLA'd.

(Just FYI, I have one with a Color Skopar that was in great shape when I got it, but it still needed to be fully CLA'd and have the front standard squared. I did all the work, so I know what is needed to make one right.)

My personal preference for MF when traveling is 6x6, which I find more flexible and easier to manage, plus you get 50% more exposures per roll so you're not reloading constantly.

 

[BobMarvin11225]

I use a Super Ikonta A 531 as my main travel camera, but IMO it's a lot slower to use than my Rolleiflex because of the separate viewfinder and rangefinder, the tiny shutter speed and f-stop markings, the need to cock the shutter separately, and the red window film advance. The folding alabada bright line finder on mine is in good shape and would probably be quite good if I didn't need glasses, or wore contacts, but, wearing glasses, I have to move my eye around a bit to see the frame lines. On the plus side the Tessar lens is very sharp [16 X 20 prints look as good as those made with my Rollei with an f2.8 Xenotar], the double exposure prevention works consistently [unlike with my Iskra where it frequently makes me loose frames], 16 exposures/roll is handy for travel and the 6 X 4.5 negatives are functionally as large as 6 X 6 if you print horizontal or vertical rather than square, and the camera is REALLY tiny.

 

[pete_mod]

After doing some research I ran across the Konica Pearl IV which looks very interesting with its brightline finder. It's 6x4.5, but I would will to overlook the smaller size for the nice viewfinder.

Are are there any other vintage folders with brightline viewfinders?

 

[macfred]

A nice overview http://www.120folder.com/compa.htm
The owner of the website is an APUG member.

 

[macfred]

What about the Plaubel Makina 67 with 80mm Nikkor (also available as w67 with 55mm Nikkor lens).

http://www.120folder.com/makina_67.htm

http://nikomat.org/priv/camera/mednikkor/makina/makina-e.html

 

[BobMarvin11225]

"Are are there any other vintage folders with brightline viewfinders?"

Some Super Ikonta models have folding bright line "alabada-type" finders. From what I've read they're usually pretty dim and deteriorated. As I wrote above, mine is in excellent condition, but leaves a lot to be desired if one wears glasses.

I've always wanted a Pearl IV, but they're quite pricey and I can't really justify the expense as they're unlikely to take better quality photographs than my Super Ikonta A [and I spent SO much time tracking down a set of A32 filters for that camera].

 

[guangong]

Pete, the rangefinder on the super ikonta b is a wedge prism geared to the front element of the Tessar lens. I have never heard of a non functioning rangefinder on a super ikonta b no matter how old. All things considered, the viewfinder is of adequate size but simple without frame lines. The more modern Fuji cameras have frame lines that correct for parallax. The super b is Pocketable but built like a tank and relatively heavy. The advantage of the super b is that onlookers underestimate its abilities...as with the Minox...which permits a certain freedom. However, as others have also noted, for general photography while touring I would take the Rollei tlr. One lens! The temptation with 35mm is to wind up carrying more lenses than necessary. Enjoy yourself! Take the Rollei!

 

[pete_mod]

Thanks for the replies.

@guangong Yes. This morning I realized I was just coming down with another case of GAS. I will take my Rolleiflex. I have a complete filter set, a couple of Rolleinar close up lenses, and other accessories... no point in 'starting over' with another camera when I haven't yet fully mastered the Rollei.

However, I will keep my eye out for a good deal on a vintage folder... I still want to try one out.

 

[thuggins]

Olympus Chrome Six. You are most likely to find a III but the IV and R models have a rangefinder (the IV is also hideously ugly and I've never seen one in the flesh). Best of all you get a Zuiko lens with any of them.

 

[Fr. Mark]

+1 for use what you have.

Why? Simplicity. Ease of operation, faster handling, better finder, faster lens, the money not spent can used for film and paper and chemicals or a nicer vacation, etc.

the folder is smaller when folded, but to me a press camera is too small...or what I take whe the Sinar P is too big. I use it mostly in 5x7...

That said, I have a list of cameras I would not turn down if someone gave me one or that if budget allowed I'd like to buy just to enjoy the engineering and both the Rollei and a 120 folder are on that list.

 

[darinwc]

Pete: Why do you consider your rolleiflex slow?
Think about a folder.. I wouldnt wear it around my neck.. too fragile.
So take it out of bag. Unfold. Take meter reading with separate meter.
Set shutter speed and aperture. cock shutter. Focus rangefinder. frame shot. Press release. Advance film. Repeat.
Sounds like you will not be saving any time with an old folder. They are not quick.

 

[Norkusa]

I found a Super Ikonta IV (534/16 I think?) at a antique shop last year for $75 and snatched it up to re-sell on Ebay. Ended up keeping it because it was so fun to use and fits in my coat pocket easily with room to spare. Only shot a few rolls with it so far but love the results. Build quality is great and it feels hefty in my hands without being too bulky.

Only problem is the shutter gets sticky around 1/15sec and slower but aside from that it runs smoothly and no leaks or overlapping frames. Light meter still works too!

 

[ZenziFriend]

I like my Zeiss Ikon Super Ikonta 532/16 (1938, 6x6 with Tessar 2,8/80)
Superb build Quality, Rangefinder spot-on (without CLA). The leather case is very useful, so try to get one with the original leather case.

My favorite Folder by xipho68, auf Flickr

The postwar IV has a better and coated lens (take that if you want to make Color Fotos), but I like the full metal buld of the old model better

 

[inglis]

If you go to German language areas in Europe, especially culture type places, a Rolleiflex often draws wonderful subtle attention. And if you are in a place for a week, the DM drugstores only charge around 3 Euros to develop slide film!

 

[bunip]

Considering your budget i think you could afford buying a cheap but good 6x6 folder from the 50' os 60'. I'm a collector of this kind of cameras and own more than 150, mostly agfa, zeiss or voigtlander. I have 20-30 cameras that use regularly and i can say that there is no brand or lens name to look for, being much better than others, if you consider the few top of the line in each brand. The main difference comes from overall conditions, lens conditions and alignment, more than from differences between brand or type lenses. I have some agfa isolette (6x6) that give outstanding pictures compared to tessar's or heliar's cameras. The agfa isolette is light, cheap (100-150 euro) and nice to shoot (solinar lens). The voigtlander perkeo is maybe smaller but delicate (on mines the color skopar is a killer lens); the zeiss ikontas are heavy but the best for consistency in results. The 6x9 format suffer from film flatness and need to be managed carefully in winding film and unfolding the camera: you can get erratic results with unsharp pictures by many problems. in 6x9 format the color skopar lens, the solinar and the opton tessar are all very good. if you can find a good one of these you'll love it.
At the end i would suggest to buy 2 folders, 6x6 and 6x9 and bring them with you and your rollei. they are not heavy, will stay in your pocket, and will give you a lot of fun shooting many film type at the same time in 2 formats. $100-150 each is not much for your budget and eventually you'll resale if not satisfied. I have also some cheaper suggestions but at this point it is important to know what will you do with the negative: if printing very large i'd suggest to get the best possible in quality; if printing till 30x30 or 30x40 cm or scanning you can go also with some compromise on price/quality.

 

[Rick A]

I carry a Zeiss Nettar 6x6 folder most places I travel, it fits neatly into my jacket pocket or in the cargo pocket of my shorts, even slipped it into a shirt pocket. It's not a range finder, but it is rather convenient to use by setting hyperfocal distance and presetting f-stop and speed.

 

[Russ Young]

After trying perhaps 20-25 6x6 folders, two come through as outstanding, not just for the lens quality but also usable features.
First choice: Mamiya Six Automat: film plane very flat, superb well coated lens, unique focus method, built like a tank, fine shutter with 1/500th, coupled rangefinder, shutter cocks as film advances (saves time), bright finder window, double exposure prevention.
Second choice: Iskra. I know people have problems with them but its because they bought a worn out camera. Mine was nearly mint and has performed flawlessly for a decade or more. Very good lens, fine shutter with 1/500th, double exposure interlock, automatically senses beginning of film so no arrows to line up, automatically resets film counter, handles well, looks great, *has generous lugs for carrying straps* (a rarity in MF folders, so you don't need a half case), good viewfinder window, coupled rangefinder, auto stop when winding film.
If you want ease & speed, no red windows but some sort of auto advance like these two cameras. Auto shutter cocking (Mamiya) makes them a lot easier to use with gloves. Double exposure prevention keeps you from finding that shot-of-a-lifetime was double exposed. Unlike some uncoated lenses, or poor single coats, you do not have to use a lens hood although in some circumstances it may behoove you to. Filters not hard to find for the Mamiya, more difficult for the Iskra but there are work-arounds. My repairman, Bill Moritz at Pro Camera in Charlottesville, says they are both easy to repair; he has CLAd both shutters and adjusted rangefinders.

 

[Mainecoonmaniac]

Take a look at this website.
http://certo6.com/

I have a Zeiss Super Ikonta IV my wife gave me years ago. I took it to our South East Asia trip and it worked flawlessly. The selenium meter is still pretty accurate and the lens is razor sharp.

 

[Besk]

I have taken a Agfa Record 6X9 on two trips. I find it to be much slower to set up and use than my Rolleiflex. Keeping it level is
also harder because of the small viewfinder.

 

[Devlog]

I am shooting with a Hasselblad 500 C/M, and with a 80 Planar it's a fine travelling combination, but with your budget I'd surely go for a GF670, a GS645 professional (folding) or a GS645W with the 45mm. I'd love to see how a Super Isolette is performing and the Mamiya suggestion is interesting. And the *new* Mamiya 6 is a far better travelling solution than the Hasselblad.

Besides, I wonder if the Super Ikonta really is something for a coat's pocket. I will check it out on my next journey.