Recommend developer for grain enhancement

Steve@f8 · Mar 10, 2021

Hi guys,
Unlike some here, possibly, I quite like B&W grain so I’m looking for recommendations for choice of developer, dilution and agitation to bring out the grain. My go-to film is HP5+.
A Google search suggested Rodinal at 1:25 plus agitation to enhance the grain, but the next google hit came up with contradictory recommendations to use 1:100, as the lengthy development makes the silver grains swell and increase in size.

Any recommendations please?

pentaxuser · Mar 10, 2021

I don't know Steve and sympathise with your dilemma but I look forward to the day when we might on Photrio at least be able to agree a list of pointers as to how to achieve an ascending scale of grain I'd have thought that Rodinal at 1+25 for HP5+ in 135 format was a very good start at least

Ideally what you need is a poster A who have used both Rodinal at 1+25 and can say that they also used developer X and it was even grainier, Then poster B who has used developer X but found that developer Y was even better You might start to be able to rank developers, dilutions, agitations etc into some kind of a ranked order

pentaxuser

takilmaboxer · Mar 10, 2021

Rodinal in any of its manifestations. Rodinal with Foma 100 rated at a high ASA and overdeveloped. Have fun!

MattKing · Mar 10, 2021

jnantz will probably recommend Dektol

bill koechling · Mar 10, 2021

+1 on the Rodinal suggestion. I've used it since 1971. Keep in mind that the grain will have a very high acutance.

Paul Howell · Mar 10, 2021

You cannot increase gain, grain size is baked in, you want a developer that is low on silver solvent resulting in high acutance or edge sharpness. As noted Dektol, Rodinal, you also think about Acufine, or dilute a standard developer like D76 or Mic-X to 1:3.

Maris · Mar 10, 2021

The grain in the negative is not the grain in the positive. The grain in the positive is a map of the spaces between the grains of the negative. To make these spaces conspicuous start with a non-solvent developer to produce a dense negative (few spaces) and then make big enlargements on to high contrast photographic paper. Lots of grain.

Juan Valdenebro · Mar 10, 2021

As Michael said, Rodinal and Ilfosol will do it, but at least in Rodinal, HP5+ is not very well seen... I have not tried it in Ilfosol. Possibly Ilfosol at 800-1600.

mshchem · Mar 10, 2021

Steve@f8 said:
Hi guys,
Unlike some here, possibly, I quite like B&W grain so I’m looking for recommendations for choice of developer, dilution and agitation to bring out the grain. My go-to film is HP5+.
A Google search suggested Rodinal at 1:25 plus agitation to enhance the grain, but the next google hit came up with contradictory recommendations to use 1:100, as the lengthy development makes the silver grains swell and increase in size.

Any recommendations please?

Are you going to make darkroom prints? If you are going to scan you can add grain with software.

Pieter12 · Mar 10, 2021

Bergger Panro 400 at box speed in Rodinal 1+50. Shoot 35mm with a wide angle lens and crop severely.

Horatio · Mar 10, 2021

If you want real grit, Foma 400 and Rodinal can’t be beat, especially if you process at 72F. BTDT.

https://www.photrio.com/forum/threads/found-the-infamous-rodinal-grain-today.174631/

Pieter12 · Mar 10, 2021

An example of medium format, very little cropping. Bergger Pancro 400, Rodinal 1+50. Printed hard.

eurekaiv · Mar 10, 2021

Steve@f8 said:
Hi guys,
Unlike some here, possibly, I quite like B&W grain so I’m looking for recommendations for choice of developer, dilution and agitation to bring out the grain. My go-to film is HP5+.
A Google search suggested Rodinal at 1:25 plus agitation to enhance the grain, but the next google hit came up with contradictory recommendations to use 1:100, as the lengthy development makes the silver grains swell and increase in size.

Any recommendations please?

If a grainy and lower fidelity look is the goal, you might also consider shooting with a 35mm half frame camera. That, and HP5+ pushed a bit with Rodinal should get you heaps of sharp noticeable grain and contrast once you enlarge for screens or printing.

ParkerSmithPhoto · Mar 10, 2021

Steve@f8 said:
Hi guys,
Unlike some here, possibly, I quite like B&W grain so I’m looking for recommendations for choice of developer, dilution and agitation to bring out the grain. My go-to film is HP5+.

Beutler's developer. I ran a series of tests with FP4 and HP5 in D23, Pyrocat, and Beutler's and the Beutler's formula won, hands down. With FP4 it is incredibly sharp with almost no apparent grain at 16" (from 120 rolls). With HP5, it gives a gorgeous grayscale with very sharp, well defined grain. I would choose it over anything, even Rodinal.

John Bragg · Mar 11, 2021

+1 for Rodinal. I would not class Ilfosol 3 as grain enhancing. My experience with HP5+ has been the exact opposite. Ilford state that Ilfosol is their direct counterpart of Xtol.

Don_ih · Mar 11, 2021

If you're willing to switch film, Foma Retropan is very grainy.

In general. though, increasing the activity of the developer and decreasing solvency will increase grain. So, dilute a developer and add some sodium carbonate or tsp or sodium hydroxide. Increasing agitation more frequently brings fresh developer into the areas of the film that are more actively developing (and thereby exhausting the "local" developer), so that should increase grain, also. But a lack of agitation, with an increase in alkalinity, should increase grain and also allow more tonality.

Or you could always try to force reticulation, if that would suit your needs.

Jonno85uk · Mar 11, 2021

Rodinal. I'm not sure if i've ever definitvely seen any difference in grain due to dilution.

I don't shoot much HP5+ as I don't particularly like the results I get with it but here's an example of it pushed to 800 in Rodinal

radiant · Mar 11, 2021

Overexposure, longer and more frequently agitated in Rodinal.

A crop from one of my prints with that recipe:

http://kuvau.tuu.fi/accidentals/

But the horror is at printing. I've got so dense negatives that at our camera club darkroom I cannot see the photo on white easel (quite bright safelights there too). Other workshop members shake their heads of confusion when I expose the papers..

Complete print here:

Lachlan Young · Mar 11, 2021

Overexpose and overprocess. Rodinal at 1+25 or so does a good job, though you can use ID-11/D-76 etc too. Print on a hard grade of paper and grain comes up strongly. All the stuff about agitation is more to do with affecting the effective rate of development than anything to do with actual sharpness. It is not a difficult technique to try, but you will want a fairly powerful lamp in the enlarger/ a scanner with good Dmax.

removed account4 · Mar 11, 2021

MattKing said:
jnantz will probably recommend Dektol

contrast yes, grain no ..
steve@f8. I wouldn't do stand development at 1:100. that can be a recipe for problems
good luck with your adventure, you're going to get a lot of varied recommendations..
my recommendation is shoot a small format and enlarge ..
have fun!
John

Steve@f8 · Mar 11, 2021

Thank you all for your replies which I’m now assimilating.
A couple of points about my situation:
I’m resuming film development after a massive gap from my teenager days, so I thought I’d ask before buying the necessary equipment and chemicals. I’m restricted to film processing since there’s no opportunity for a darkroom (space and keeping the wife happy!), hence scanning only.
I’m not restricted to HP5 and happy to try different films as mentioned above. Camera wise, apart from a number of film cameras, SLRs and a RF, I have a rather a nice Pen F and I’ve made a note to use it more.

takilmaboxer · Mar 11, 2021

Remember that a developer like Rodinal is not intrinsically grainy; it's just honest; it has no solvent action and makes for sharp edged grain that appears more conspicuous to the eye. Choice of film and printing technique are just as important. I can't speak to scanning as I'm 100% analogue. You have some fun ahead of you.
I tried Foma 400 and Retro 320; they have grain like sand!

Paul Howell · Mar 11, 2021

For grain, Foma Action Pan 400, matched with Rodinal, or as pointed out Beutler.

Greg Kriss · Mar 11, 2021

If you ever get a chance of acquiring some rolls of Kodak 2475 High Speed Recording film, just go for it. Unfortunately I believe the film was discontinued around 2001. I shot a lot of in the late 1970s. It had the most beautiful pronounced grain of any film I have ever used. Several years ago I was able to get my hands on a 20 roll brick of the film. Way out of date, but the film was frozen after it was purchased and still very useable. Unfortunately found myself using up the rolls way too quickly. In 1970 used several rolls to shoot the Powder Ridge Rock Festival in the middle of the night. Power was cut off to the site so any lighting was by generators, car lights, or flashlights. Vague memory of processing it in, I think, D-19 to squeak out printable images from the very, very severely under exposed images.

Nicholas Lindan · Mar 11, 2021

TMZ-3200, overexposed, overdeveloped in Dektol.
Use a 20mm lens in place of a 50mm and enlarge the heck out of the negative.
Use a #5 contrast filter (if you overexpose and overdevelop enough you will need it).

Recommend developer for grain enhancement

Steve@f8

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Recommend developer for grain enhancement

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