Recessed lens board size help requested

[Stephen McAteer]

21mm is pretty deep. It might be too much. What is the minimum bellows for your camera?

I'm not sure what the minimum extension is: the camera is a Linhof Technika V — the front standard can be retracted into the camera body, almost to the point where it's touching the ground glass, though I don't think you're meant to use the camera with it in that position.

 

[Dan Fromm]

I'm not sure what the minimum extension is: the camera is a Linhof Technika V — the front standard can be retracted into the camera body, almost to the point where it's touching the ground glass, though I don't think you're meant to use the camera with it in that position.

Um, this http://www.laflexcamera.com/new-page-1 link will take you to a Technika V user's manual. In English, even.

And this https://www.largeformatphotography....390-Linhof-wide-angle-device-what-s-the-scoop will take you to a discussion of the LInhof wide angle focusing device.

The Technika V, like many press cameras, is somewhat hostile to short lenses. If you're serious about shooting a 65 mm lens on 4x5 without movements, consider getting a 4x5 Crown Graphic with Graflok back. Minimum extension is 52.4 mm. Note that on 4x5 a 65 will need a a 1.5 stop CF.

 

[Chuck1]

Anyone know the proper recessed board to use with a focusing cam(for a 90)

 

[Stephen McAteer]

Um, this http://www.laflexcamera.com/new-page-1 link will take you to a Technika V user's manual. In English, even.

And this https://www.largeformatphotography....390-Linhof-wide-angle-device-what-s-the-scoop will take you to a discussion of the LInhof wide angle focusing device.

The Technika V, like many press cameras, is somewhat hostile to short lenses. If you're serious about shooting a 65 mm lens on 4x5 without movements, consider getting a 4x5 Crown Graphic with Graflok back. Minimum extension is 52.4 mm. Note that on 4x5 a 65 will need a a 1.5 stop CF.

Thanks for those links Dan — the manual will be very useful.
I don't think I want to get another camera at this point as I have too many already.
(I'm now looking at 75mm lenses but maybe a 90 would do. I just want a pretty wide lens for it but with minimal hassle. Cheers.)

 

[xkaes]

So, choose:

WIDE -- 90
EXTRAWIDE -- 75
SUPERWIDE -- 65

A 75mm is not that much different from a 65mm, and you can always crop the 65mm image to attain a 75mm perspective. Much depends on what else you have --100mm, 125mm, 135mm???

 

[abruzzi]

Its been a while, but my reccolection was that 90mm was about the widest on a flat board, and that didn't fully engage the rail. So my guess is with a 20mm recess, a 75mm will be workable. I'm guessing a 65 will require the internal focusing mechanism that seems hard to find. According to Bob Salomon:

The shortest lens that can be used on the focusing tracks of the MT is a 72mm.

MT: Master Technika.
The MT 2000 and MT 3000 have a focusable internal rail that can handle shorter lenses.

 

[Kilgallb]

One other advantage of a recessed board is the front rail will not be in the image when front fall is max. Of course in my 45CF you can drop the front rail, but sometimes I forget.

 

[Stephen McAteer]

So, choose:

WIDE -- 90
EXTRAWIDE -- 75
SUPERWIDE -- 65

A 75mm is not that much different from a 65mm, and you can always crop the 65mm image to attain a 75mm perspective. Much depends on what else you have --100mm, 125mm, 135mm???

I currently have a 135mm and a 210. I think I'll Google field of view for 75 & 90mm and see which one would be best.

 

[Stephen McAteer]

Its been a while, but my reccolection was that 90mm was about the widest on a flat board, and that didn't fully engage the rail. So my guess is with a 20mm recess, a 75mm will be workable. I'm guessing a 65 will require the internal focusing mechanism that seems hard to find. According to Bob Salomon:



MT: Master Technika.
The MT 2000 and MT 3000 have a focusable internal rail that can handle shorter lenses.

Thanks for that information @abruzzi. In that case, maybe a 90 would be simpler. I'm not sure I like the idea of having to fiddle with aperture & shutter speed on a recessed board.

 

[Stephen McAteer]

One other advantage of a recessed board is the front rail will not be in the image when front fall is max. Of course in my 45CF you can drop the front rail, but sometimes I forget.

I had forgotten about the possibility of the front rail being in the picture. I think the front rail can be dropped on my camera too but not sure I want to get into that.

 

[xkaes]

I was assuming you can drop the bed on your camera. If not, the 65mm will probably not work -- and the 75mm might have the same problem.

Anyway, since you have a 135mm, the 90mm fits in the middle better than a 75mm.

And here's an easy way to add more lenses to your arsenal -- without buying any new lenses:

http://www.subclub.org/fujinon/close-up.htm

 

[Stephen McAteer]

I was assuming you can drop the bed on your camera. If not, the 65mm will probably not work -- and the 75mm might have the same problem.

Anyway, since you have a 135mm, the 90mm fits in the middle better than a 75mm.

And here's an easy way to add more lenses to your arsenal -- without buying any new lenses:

http://www.subclub.org/fujinon/close-up.htm

Thanks. I think a 90 is going to be what I'll get. Just seems a lot simpler, especially if I can use a flat board. Cheers.

 

[ced]

Linhof 12mm COMFORT Recessed Lensboard with QRS

 

[xkaes]

That's the "Cadillac" of recessed lens boards -- with a price tag to match!!!

 

[Doremus Scudder]

I own two 90mm lenses, which are both in recessed boards. They are both the smaller f/8 versions and fit well in Technika-style recessed boards. Mine are both 20mm or deeper. Both of my lenses have permanently-mounted cable releases, although a cable-release extension or on-board adapter (with a stiff wire connection to the shutter release) are both viable options as well.

I use the end of the cable release or the end of my mechanical pencil (always with me in the exposure log) to open/close the preview and to set the aperture. I can set shutter speed and cock the shutter with my fingers, but a tool would work as well. I don't find using the lenses in recessed boards fiddly at all.

My 75mm lens is also in a recessed board and is operated in the same manner.

I'd really recommend going with a 90mm before going wider. It is the "standard" wide angle for 4x5 for a reason and would fit nicely with the lenses you have already, giving you a 150% progression (90x1.5=135, 135x1.5=~202; close enough to 210). Just my -HOP

Best,

Doremus

 

[Stephen McAteer]

Linhof 12mm COMFORT Recessed Lensboard with QRS

That does look nice, but it's also more than I can afford. Thanks though.

 

[Stephen McAteer]

I own two 90mm lenses, which are both in recessed boards. They are both the smaller f/8 versions and fit well in Technika-style recessed boards. Mine are both 20mm or deeper. Both of my lenses have permanently-mounted cable releases, although a cable-release extension or on-board adapter (with a stiff wire connection to the shutter release) are both viable options as well.

I use the end of the cable release or the end of my mechanical pencil (always with me in the exposure log) to open/close the preview and to set the aperture. I can set shutter speed and cock the shutter with my fingers, but a tool would work as well. I don't find using the lenses in recessed boards fiddly at all.

My 75mm lens is also in a recessed board and is operated in the same manner.

I'd really recommend going with a 90mm before going wider. It is the "standard" wide angle for 4x5 for a reason and would fit nicely with the lenses you have already, giving you a 150% progression (90x1.5=135, 135x1.5=~202; close enough to 210). Just my -HOP

Best,

Doremus

Thanks Doremus.

I'm wondering if the f/8 lenses would give a significantly darker image on the ground glass than a 5.6 lens?

An f/8 lens would certainly be cheaper, and the smaller front cell would make it easier to manipulate the controls if I have a recessed board.

I think a 90mm f/8 (Or maybe 5.6) is going to be what I'll go for.

Cheers.

 

[abruzzi]

honestly, most of the lenses I shoot are ƒ9 lenses, and I find them fine. Admittedly most don't qualify as wide on the cameras they're used on (which does make a difference), but I have shot my G-Claron 210mm ƒ9 on an 8x10 (equivalent to 105mm on a 4x5) and haven't had issues seeing and focusing. But I have a Super Angulon 90mm ƒ5.6 and a Fujinon SW 105mm ƒ8 and I use the Fujinon more because its smaller, and easier to pack. The darkness isn't an issue as long as I bring a dark cloth. If you're just using a hood outside, then you want the brightest lens you can find.

 

[xkaes]

I think a 90mm f/8 (Or maybe 5.6) is going to be what I'll go for.

I agree with abruzzi. Another point to consider is the size of the lens. I chose an f8 because it was much smaller and lighter -- and smaller filters (67mm vs 82mm). The f5.6 would not fit on my camera.

I also have a 105mm f5.6, and a 90mm f8.0 seems just as bright to me.

 

[Stephen McAteer]

honestly, most of the lenses I shoot are ƒ9 lenses, and I find them fine. Admittedly most don't qualify as wide on the cameras they're used on (which does make a difference), but I have shot my G-Claron 210mm ƒ9 on an 8x10 (equivalent to 105mm on a 4x5) and haven't had issues seeing and focusing. But I have a Super Angulon 90mm ƒ5.6 and a Fujinon SW 105mm ƒ8 and I use the Fujinon more because its smaller, and easier to pack. The darkness isn't an issue as long as I bring a dark cloth. If you're just using a hood outside, then you want the brightest lens you can find.

Okay thanks for that. I just went ahead and bought an older 90mm f/8 Angulon on eBay. Should be here in a couple of days. It was being sold on what I think is a genuine Linhof recessed board. (I've been using a dark cloth most of the time.)

 

[Stephen McAteer]

I agree with abruzzi. Another point to consider is the size of the lens. I chose an f8 because it was much smaller and lighter -- and smaller filters (67mm vs 82mm). The f5.6 would not fit on my camera.

I also have a 105mm f5.6, and a 90mm f8.0 seems just as bright to me.

Okay thank you. Looking forward to using this 90 f/8 I've ordered.

 

[_T_]

You should be good with the combo you chose. There is a very unlikely scenario in which it might not work depending on what shutter the lens is mounted in, but this would have been immediately apparent.

The lens you bought was mounted in a variety of shutters of slightly different dimensions. Most of them use a 32.5mm mount and are going to be the more or less possible to operate. But there are some copies mounted in an electronic shutter, the compur electronic #1, which won’t fit. You would know if you got this one because of the huge battery dingus hanging off the side of it.

https://cameramanuals.org/lenses/compur_electronic_1-lang.pdf

I’ve never seen one so I imagine they’re pretty rare.

Page 4 of this brochure lists the dimensions of your lens and the types of shutters it came mounted in:

https://www.pacificrimcamera.com/rl/02156/02156.pdf

Here’s a brochure listing the dimensions of a copal #0 shutter:

https://www.pacificrimcamera.com/rl/02938/02938.pdf

You can find the dimensions of other shutters by googling their brochures.

And you can estimate the size of the recesses by knowing the dimensions of the board and estimating the size of the hole. You could even measure the number of pixels across each dimension and do the math to get pretty close to the actual size. Looks like 76-80mm about.

I have mounted a larger 90mm f/5.6 lens in a copal #0 shutter in a similar sized lens board. Mine was a calumet 4”x4” 30mm recessed board. And it was just possible to operate with a 90° shutter release adapter.

After using it for a few weeks I realized that it was fairly pointless. The camera couldn’t make use of the movements on the lens because the bellows weren’t extended enough to allow much range of motion and it sucked reaching into the recess every time I needed to change a setting so I had to reevaluate how important it was to me to shoot so wide on 4x5.

Ended up selling the camera and going with a totally different system that was able to use a bag bellows and had a smaller minimum extension because I decided that I wanted to be able to use the whole image circle if I needed to.

But that’s often how it goes with large format when you’re learning new things. You end up abandoning so many things that you were once so sure were going to solve all your problems.

 

[Stephen McAteer]

@_T_ Thanks for that detailed information.

I hope I'm going to get some use out of this lens. I like the 'Look' of images from wide lenses in general, so it should be okay.

I don't plan on using movements, but you never know, I suppose.

This one is in Copal #0.

If it doesn't work out, I can always just recycle it on eBay.

I like this Technika overall, but the way it's 'Allergic' [As someone put it] to wide-angle lenses might become an issue if I like the pictures I get from the 90mm.

Cheers.