Rebranded Current B/W Films

[silvergelatin]

I've been seeing some unknown films around, but have not found any definitive information as to the actual emulsion being used for these films. Can anyone confirm with certainty what these films actually are? I've read that some may be Orwo, but it's not clear which exact emulsions. I'm interested in trying some new films, but would like to avoid duplicating efforts.

Kiki Pan 320 (cute packaging, can be found cheap)
Catlabs X 320
Rollei Retro 400s (same as CatLabs, possibly Aviphot?)
Bergger Pancro 400
Kosmo Agent Shadow 400
Wolfen P400 (Orwo, but is it the same as the N74/75 emulsions?)

 

[koraks]

Catlabs X 320
Rollei Retro 400s (same as CatLabs, possibly Aviphot?)

Yeah, that's Agfa Aviphot 200.
See here: https://www.photrio.com/forum/threa...-films-and-kentmere-100-and-400-films.196304/

Sorry, don't know about the others.

the actual emulsion being used for these films

This formulation makes it seem almost like 3rd parties are buying tubs of emulsion and then having their own film coated with it. Just to be sure: this isn't happening. The rebranding thing consists of taking an existing film and sticking a different label onto it.

 

[Paul Howell]

From I understand Bergger Panco 400 was or is not rebranded, unique emulsion coated to order, by Orwa (?) or Harmon. Have seen any in the U.S for several years.

 

[retina_restoration]

Bergger Pancro 400 (RIP?) is not a rebrand of any other film - it is made to Bergger's specs by one of the European manufacturers (it's still unclear which one). Sadly, the sheet film sizes of Pancro 400 have been MIA for nearly 3 years. I suspect we may never see it in sheet sizes again.

The vast majority of "rebrands" are either Aviphot or Foma films.

 

[Lachlan Young]

Bergger Pancro 400 is/ was made & coated by Innoviscoat and seemed to have been based on a 'Tri-X-ified' version of Agfapan 400 that may have originally been instigated for Adox. The most recent (N75, I recall) Orwo 400 B&W is likely to have very close familial lineage, and the Bergger Print Film could be traced to a cinema print film from Orwo's catalogue, with the emulsion made & coated by Innoviscoat. The unavailability relates to the messy attempts to fully unify Innoviscoat and Orwo into one & the manufacturing bits largely being swallowed by Impossible.

The Bergger paper emulsions are made & coated by Harman Technology.

 

[silvergelatin]

From I understand Bergger Panco 400 was or is not rebranded, unique emulsion coated to order, by Orwa (?) or Harmon. Have seen any in the U.S for several years.

Bergger Pancro 400 (RIP?) is not a rebrand of any other film - it is made to Bergger's specs by one of the European manufacturers (it's still unclear which one). Sadly, the sheet film sizes of Pancro 400 have been MIA for nearly 3 years. I suspect we may never see it in sheet sizes again.

The vast majority of "rebrands" are either Aviphot or Foma films.

Bergger Pancro 400 is/ was made & coated by Innoviscoat and seemed to have been based on a 'Tri-X-ified' version of Agfapan 400 that may have originally been instigated for Adox. The most recent (N75, I recall) Orwo 400 B&W is likely to have very close familial lineage, and the Bergger Print Film could be traced to a cinema print film from Orwo's catalogue, with the emulsion made & coated by Innoviscoat. The unavailability relates to the messy attempts to fully unify Innoviscoat and Orwo into one & the manufacturing bits largely being swallowed by Impossible.

The Bergger paper emulsions are made & coated by Harman Technology.

Thanks. It’s seems to be readily available here in Japan (35mm), so I’ll try some out. A little expensive, but not quite Kodak levels .

 

[retina_restoration]

Thanks. It’s seems to be readily available here in Japan (35mm), so I’ll try some out. A little expensive, but not quite Kodak levels .

In 35mm format, I found Pancro 400 to be far too grainy, lacking tonal separation and poor acutance/sharpness. In larger formats (120 and sheets) it's far more serviceable. YMMV of course.

 

[silvergelatin]

In 35mm format, I found Pancro 400 to be far too grainy, lacking tonal separation and poor acutance/sharpness. In larger formats (120 and sheets) it's far more serviceable. YMMV of course.

My favorite film is Foma 400, so that might actually suit me! I’ll pick some up tomorrow and run a test roll.

 

[retina_restoration]

My favorite film is Foma 400, so that might actually suit me! I’ll pick some up tomorrow and run a test roll.

Yep. You might find the two films to be very similar.

 

[Paul Howell]

In 35mm format, I found Pancro 400 to be far too grainy, lacking tonal separation and poor acutance/sharpness. In larger formats (120 and sheets) it's far more serviceable. YMMV of course.

Same here, even in 6X6 I found it too grainy, ok in 6X9, was going to buy a box of 4X5 then the pandemic, has not returned to the U.S market.

 

[revdoc]

Kiki Pan 320 is Orwo N75. Kosmo Agent Shadow seems to be Kentmere 400, based on the packaging.

 

[silvergelatin]

Kiki Pan 320 is Orwo N75. Kosmo Agent Shadow seems to be Kentmere 400, based on the packaging.

Thanks! I ordered a few rolls of the Kiki. From what I see online, I think Orwo N75 might be a lot of fun. Is it still being produced? I cannot find any Orwo or Wolfen-branded versions, even in bulk rolls, but I understand they have had stock issues lately.

 

[silvergelatin]

Yeah, that's Agfa Aviphot 200.
See here: https://www.photrio.com/forum/threa...-films-and-kentmere-100-and-400-films.196304/

Sorry, don't know about the others.



This formulation makes it seem almost like 3rd parties are buying tubs of emulsion and then having their own film coated with it. Just to be sure: this isn't happening. The rebranding thing consists of taking an existing film and sticking a different label onto it.

Thanks! The Aviphot stock looks interesting. I'll pick some up today.

 

[silvergelatin]

Follow up question: the Massive Dev Chart lists both Agfa APX400 and Rollei RPX 400 as Kentmere rebrands, but contradicting that, the times for Rodinal are different (RPX is very close, though). Are the times for those films for an older version, or is the "unlisted/rebrand" list incorrect? I know there has been some debate as to whether those films are rebrands or unique emulsions made by Harman. Sorry to beat a dead horse, but reading past threads for this stuff is inconclusive.

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

Pretty sure CatLABS 80 II is Shanghai 100.

 

[Corn_Zhou]

Pretty sure CatLABS 80 II is Shanghai 100.

Does it have the same blue backing of Shanghai GP3?

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

Does it have the same blue backing of Shanghai GP3?

Nope. Green.

 

[Corn_Zhou]

Nope. Green.

AFAIK there were few films that had a green backing. All of them were aerial film. Lucky in China produced a film named Type1021 which had a bright green backing and Tasma in Russia produced Type25L and Type42L which both had a dark green backing

 

[otto.f]

Bergger Pancro 400 is/ was made & coated by Innoviscoat and seemed to have been based on a 'Tri-X-ified' version of Agfapan 400 that may have originally been instigated for Adox

Which does not mean that Pancro400 is in any way similar to TriX or Agfapan400 or any current Adox film. It’s quite a unique film with a very high base/fog as its most prominent difference with other films.

 

[Corn_Zhou]

Which does not mean that Pancro400 is in any way similar to TriX or Agfapan400 or any current Adox film. It’s quite a unique film with a very high base/fog as its most prominent difference with other films.

That is not a plausible feature and makes this film very hard to use. I think even Foma Retro320 is more stable than Pancro400.

 

[koraks]

AFAIK there were few films that had a green backing.

Fomapan comes to mind.

 

[Corn_Zhou]

Fomapan comes to mind.

I think only 120rolls had that kind of backing, maybe sheet also?

 

[koraks]

I think only 120rolls had that kind of backing, maybe sheet also?

Sheet too. I shoot a lot of Foma sheet film; it has the same green antihalation dye as on 120.

 

[Corn_Zhou]

Sheet too. I shoot a lot of Foma sheet film; it has the same green antihalation dye as on 120.

Thanks for the info!

 

[koraks]

Sure thing, always welcome!