Reasonably priced dedicated 35mm scanner?

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cooltouch

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I own an Epson 4990 and, while it does a nice job with medium format, I'm finding that often 35mm leaves something to be desired. So, I'm hoping I might be able to pick up a dedicated 35mm film scanner that will work reasonably well and that won't cost me a small fortune. I'll need something that can handle slides, both mounted and unmounted, and negatives, both color and b&w. I'm hoping to keep the price under $200. Hopefully well under.

I just finished doing a search on eBay and found the following:

Nikon LS-2000 ~2800 ppi
Nikon Coolscan III LS-30 ~2700 ppi
Minolta Dimage F-2800.
Minolta Dimage LF-2900 ~2800 dpi
Minolta Dimage 5400
Canon CanoScan FS2710
Plustek OpticFilm 7200 -- $200 new at Adorama. A new 7200 ppi scanner for only $200?

Almost all of the above items are open auctions, so I don't really know what they'll end up selling for.

I know one of you guys here -- Pellicle? -- has a Leafscan, which has impressive specs, and I've seen a couple on the 'bay, but I'd just as soon find something smaller. It requires a freight company just to ship it!

I also spotted a Canon 9950 -- their top-of-the-line flatbed (now discontinued). Wondering if it does any better than the Epsons do. Anybody here have one?
 

pellicle

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Hi

I own an Epson 4990 and, while it does a nice job with medium format, I'm finding that often 35mm leaves something to be desired.

feel that way myself from time to time...

So, I'm hoping I might be able to pick up a dedicated 35mm film scanner that will work reasonably well and that won't cost me a small fortune.

before you go nuts, please take a peek at this comparison.

Nikon LS-2000 ~2800 ppi
Nikon Coolscan III LS-30 ~2700 ppi
Minolta Dimage F-2800.
Minolta Dimage LF-2900 ~2800 dpi
Minolta Dimage 5400
Canon CanoScan FS2710
Plustek OpticFilm 7200 -- $200 new at Adorama. A new 7200 ppi scanner for only $200?

the top two are SCSI not USB, so without a card you'll be unable to use it.

I know one of you guys here -- Pellicle? -- has a Leafscan, which has

no that'd be Sandy

I'll post more later
 

cje2002

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Hi

I have a Minolta Scan Dual 3 (for at least 5 years now) - and have always been happy with it. I think you can pick these up for about 100 or so on ebay.

There are two things it doesn't do which I think would be useful:

- ICE (for dust removal)
- multi-pass scanning (for which I think you need vuescan or silverfast). (It does do multi sampling for noise reduction in dense areas - the multi-pass thing is where it does two scans with different exposure settings and uses the longer exposure to get better info about the dense bits.) I think it can't do this well because you can't guarantee that two scans are in perfect registration.

I would try to find a scanner with both of these if I were looking for one myself (e.g. minolta 5400 and maybe the minolta IV).
 

pellicle

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Hi

didn't have much time before but I have a few more moments now :smile:

The question of which scanner is a vexed one. Firstly I'll say that myself I
have also struggled with the balance of gear desires VS budgetary restrictions. Worse, 10 years ago the prices were slightly higher than you
face now and 1000 bucks meant a lot more than it does now (compare what sort of car you get for a thousand bucks now vs then)

I also have found that the differences between an older 2700dpi dedicated film scanner and a flatbed Epson may not be as substantial as many would have you think. I've compared my 4870 with my Nikon LS-20 (2700dpi, no ICE available)

and then later my LS-40 (2900dpi with a good ICE system) and I still use my 4870 or 4990 ... it was only when I went to the LS-4000 that I found that I got results which were worth the hassle.

Hassle? YES .. hassle! You see as you require higher detail from your film,

you require higher precision. Good focus is as important as having good optics in the process. I'll put this on its own line:

without manually choosing a focus point of good contrast in your image the Auto Focus software will not give you the sharpest image possible from your film.

As you'll see from my blog post mentioned above a slightly blury image from a Nikon will be no better than the images you'll get time after time (and in
much less time) out of your Epson 4990 ... with no effort.

I can load 4 strips of 6 frames (they don't even need to be from the same roll) into my epson, select them all, click scan and wander off, not needing
to do anything. Heck, I can even apply the same settings to each scan, or choose specific images from those strips.

You just can't do that with any other scanner. Only the LS-4000 and 5000 with their strip feeder approach this, and even then only with uncut whole rolls ... do you store your film this way?

I don't


So, in your oder:

Nikon LS-2000 ~2800 ppi
Nikon Coolscan III LS-30 ~2700 ppi
the LS x0 series are the 'home' user models and the LS x0000 series are the professional ones. The new price was typically at least double that of the 2 digit models. I've owned and LS-20 (and still own it), LS-40 and LS-4000 scanners (still using the 4000)

I would only consider the two scanners you mention above if you personally know the seller and the scanner. the LS-2000 have been the cornerstone of many small businesses slide printing outfits.

There have been numerous advances in the mechanical and optical design of the Nikons from day one and the LS-2000 represents the starting point of it being good for me. But they are SCSI and often old. SCSI scanners will limit you on

what OS you can use (nothing much new uses this anymore) and you will be restricted as to what SCSI hardware will work too.

Having said that my LS-20 gave results almost identical to my friends LS-30 ... and that models ICE was dreadful ... my LS-20 gave superior results if compared to his machine with ICE.

IF you are willing to go down the SCSI path then you can likely get an LS-20 for about $50 If I was in Australia I'd post you mine for you covering the postage.

out of this list:
Minolta Dimage F-2800.
Minolta Dimage LF-2900 ~2800 dpi
Minolta Dimage 5400
Canon CanoScan FS2710

of that bundle I would only consider the Dimage 5400

[/QUOTE]
Plustek OpticFilm 7200 -- $200 new at Adorama. A new 7200 ppi scanner for only $200?
Yes, and I share your skepticism. However with that in mind I've sent a pair of strips of 35mm to mrred on this forum who has offered to be involved in a collaborative effort to compare the Plustek to my LS-4000, I've scanned the film already my end and so when he gets his results I'll put them on my blog and we can go from there.

Hopefully this will help answer that important question, as if it IS comparable with the Nikons then the insane prices fetched for LS-40 (aka LS-IV) can be put to bed. Of course there will be some unresolved issues such as scanner operator and product variation, but to solve that will require more extensive work.

lastly, if you're interested I can send you a file I have saved from a WWW site comparing the 5400 with the LS-5000 ... you will need IE to open it as it is saved as a MHT file ... let me know if you want to read that
 
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cooltouch

cooltouch

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Thanks for the responses, guys.

As for SCSI, I have a card, plus a couple of the scanners I saw included the card with them. Yes, I'm aware of OS limitations. Windows 7 apparently no longer supports SCSI, which means that Vista probably doesn't either -- dunno for sure on Vista. But I'm content still with XP and if I feel the real need to go with SCSI, I can dedicate one of my machines to running XP.

Pellicle, thanks for the links to your blog. I have visited it several times, and use it as a resource. Hadn't read that particular section before though. Your scans were revealing, however. I don't see a whole lot of difference between that Nikon film scanner and the Epson 4870 you tested.

See this is why I was asking, cuz I just don't have the perspective to be able to judge which is better -- my 4990 flatbed or an older dedicated scanner. I already have some experience with an older dedicated scanner -- an HP S20 -- which I didn't mention because I already own one, and consider it to deliver scans on par with the 4990. Except they're only half as big. Its max resolution is 2400 ppi.

I have done direct comparisons between my 4990 and S20, scanning the same frame of film, using a slide duplicator to record the image of the same negative, and shooting a digital image of the same subject with a 10mp DSLR. In terms of resolution detail, the rank is probably not surprising to you: 1 is the digital image, 2 is the duplicated negative, 3 and 4 are the two scanned images, which are essentially equivalent in detail.

What I hope to achieve is a scanned image closer to 2, the duplicated one. It would be great to achieve an image closer to 1, but I don't see that happening, albeit mostly from focusing errors. Obviously, I don't have Live Vie on my manual focus film camera, which provides a big advantage with my DSLR.

I dunno. I'm pretty confused, to be honest. If I had a full-frame DSLR, I'd just be using a T-mount slide duplicator and be done with it. Instead, if I go the duplicator route with my 1.6x crop body camera, I have to mount the duplicator to a lens, which really complicates things. I've gotten decent results doing so, but things get fiddly and it's really difficult to scan negatives using this setup.
 

pellicle

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Hi

I dunno. I'm pretty confused, to be honest. If I had a full-frame DSLR

well if I had a full-frame DSLR I wouldn't be rooting around with 35mm film that's for sure ;-)

well ... ok ... at least till my stash of HIE black and white runs out

if it helps, you can post me a neg and I'll scan it on my LS-4000 and mail it back
 
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cooltouch

cooltouch

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Hi



well if I had a full-frame DSLR I wouldn't be rooting around with 35mm film that's for sure ;-)

well ... ok ... at least till my stash of HIE black and white runs out

if it helps, you can post me a neg and I'll scan it on my LS-4000 and mail it back

Hey Pellicle,

I dunno, I have a lot of 35mm gear, and unless somebody comes up with digital backs for my cameras, I reckon I'll be using them until I can't buy 35mm film anymore. I just wish E-6 wasn't getting so hard to find and get developed.

Thanks for the offer, but I don't reckon I'll be able to afford an LS4000 anytime soon anyway. My daughter's college tuition is taking precedence these days.

I've finally put together a comparison of scans from a lens test I just completed. I think I'll post a few of the images here to show what sort of results I've been getting.
 

jpberger

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I've had good luck with a plustek 7500. As with most other scanners the 7200dpi figure is baloney-- it will do an honest 3600dpi however, which is plenty for big prints from fine grained film. The limitations are that the film holders are flimsy and doing one frame at a time means that you don't want to be scanning a whole roll of film just to see if it's any good,unless you have a lot of time and patience. A flat bed is a huge time saver for making digital contact sheets, so don't sell the Epson.
 

mrred

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That Plustek is a 7200 or 7200i? Big difference. I have the 7200i and it does a real 3200dpi and has infrared for scanning and dust busting. I am pleased with it and have a 4490 for medium.

The 7200 without the infra red stuff would probably leave you frustrated. However the scanner noise that you are used to in the Epson does not exist in the Plusteks. No need for 2+ passes. However the 7200i, new from Adorama, is under $300. Still a good deal and twice as fast as my 4490.
 

sanking

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I know one of you guys here -- Pellicle? -- has a Leafscan, which has impressive specs, and I've seen a couple on the 'bay, but I'd just as soon find something smaller. It requires a freight company just to ship it!

I am the one with the Leafscan 45. It is a great scanner, better than a lot of drum scanners in fact, but very slow with color since you must make three passes with Red, Green and Blue filters. Modern scanners use tri-linear CCDs and do this in one pass.

The Leafscan 45 is indeed a large scanner, about 90lbs or so, and I would be hesitant to buy one that had to be shipped to me. On the other hand, if you can find one locally in working condition for less than $1000, it would be a great buy.

I have compared results of my Leafscan 45 with a Nikon LS-9000, scanning MF negatives at 5080 ppi with the Leaf and 4000 with the Nikon, and results with the Leaf are better. Course, to scan MF at 5080 ppi you must scan in two passes and stitch.

Sandy King
 

pellicle

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Morning Mrred

...No need for 2+ passes.

I have not found multi sampling a great 'boon' in the Nikons (which can sample without moving on obviating the registration issues of multiple passes. None of the samples of scans I've ever shown has used multi sampling. I get quite acceptable results without resorting to such tools.

let me know when the negs arrive ;-)
 

pellicle

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dogsled!

I told them to use reindeer!

dagnabbit, hope it doesn't go across russia!
 
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