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Bormental

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Alright, I've got my C41 kit, I have 5 rolls of film piled up to be developed. This is going to be my first time. I have my sous-vide device from Cinestill, I've practiced precise temperature control with my B&W process and also did a couple of "dry runs" with just water. I am determined to do the standard process of 3:30 @102F and tomorrow is the day!

One final question for the veterans of home color processing: since 3:30 is pretty tight, pouring/draining the developer takes significant percent of the (short) development time. For example, for B&W I always:
  • Turn the timer after I'm done pouring developer into the tank.
  • Start draining the developer 10 seconds ahead of time.
What's your advice here for color?
 

MattKing

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Bormental

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I have that PDF. It doesn't answer my question. It takes time to get liquids in/out of Paterson tanks. "Place the film into a tank and start the timer" is inadequate.
 

Jim Blodgett

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I start my timer with one hand when the tank is almost full. And I start pouring the developer back into the bottle with about 5 or maybe 7 seconds left on the timer. I don't think a few seconds either way critical. It's not as touchy as you might think.

Funny you post this tonight. I was just today thinking I might post something about these 1 liter C41 kits. I just poured a set of chemicals out that I processed 16 rolls with over the past three months. It still turned out great negatives but I don't want to chance another roll and won't have any more to process until we get home in a few weeks. Still way exceeded the manufacturer's promise, though.

Good luck with your processing. It's way easier than I thought it would be. I have had very good luck processing with those kits and glad I gave them a try.

Came back to ask - are you using distilled water for your pre-rinse and to mix your chemicals? Or at least filtered water?
 

MattKing

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I have that PDF. It doesn't answer my question. It takes time to get liquids in/out of Paterson tanks. "Place the film into a tank and start the timer" is inadequate.
"In complete darkness, load the film onto the processing reel(s), then place the loaded reel(s) into the small invertible processing tank. Quickly start the darkroom timer and place the cover on the processing tank, and begin initial agitation."
The tank is to be filled with developer before you put the film into it.
At the end of each step, it advises:
"Use last 10 seconds of this step to drain tank."
With the exception of the developer, the fill times aren't critical.
 

btaylor

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I think the most important thing is to do your timing in exactly the same way every time. It is impractical for me to place the reels in a filled tank as I use a Unicolor film drum, so I start my timer when the drum goes on the roller and end it when I take it off. Since I do it the same way every time my results are consistent.
 
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Bormental

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Came back to ask - are you using distilled water for your pre-rinse and to mix your chemicals? Or at least filtered water?

Thank you, and yes: 100% distilled water for everything, all the time. Even for B&W.
 

mshchem

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"In complete darkness, load the film onto the processing reel(s), then place the loaded reel(s) into the small invertible processing tank. Quickly start the darkroom timer and place the cover on the processing tank, and begin initial agitation."
The tank is to be filled with developer before you put the film into it.
At the end of each step, it advises:
"Use last 10 seconds of this step to drain tank."
With the exception of the developer, the fill times aren't critical.
Good old EKCo. Do it by the book and you get great results. I have a beautiful Kodak processing basket, never used, for processing Ektacolor or Ektachrome RC paper in 3 1/2 gallon tanks. They recommend using scrap paper and finding temperature change when the basket is immersed to be able to adjust starting temperature of the developer.

I still use my Kodak Rapid Color Processors when on the rare occasions that I print color. You have to work in the dark, but they work so well. Perfectly repeatable temperature and agitation, one shot chemistry. Someday I'm going to process 8x10 color sheet film on it just to prove it can be done.
 

koraks

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I start the time immediately after pouring the developer into the tank, and pour it out immediately after the 3m15s development time is over. The few additional seconds don't seem to have a detrimental effect. Like others said: make sure you do it the same way every time; consistency is key.
 

mshchem

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I start the time immediately after pouring the developer into the tank, and pour it out immediately after the 3m15s development time is over. The few additional seconds don't seem to have a detrimental effect. Like others said: make sure you do it the same way every time; consistency is key.
+1 consistent technique, same thermometer etc.
 

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I start the time immediately after pouring the developer into the tank, and pour it out immediately after the 3m15s development time is over. The few additional seconds don't seem to have a detrimental effect. Like others said: make sure you do it the same way every time; consistency is key.

+1. This is the simplest and easiest way to keep everything consistent.
I have to admit I always found "Use last 10 seconds of this step to drain tank." too hard to follow.
Pouring (say 600ml) into a dev tank (like a Patterson for example) should only take 3-4 seconds and to drain it should be 2-3 sec. As had been said, it is the dev that is the most critical to time & temp
 

Sirius Glass

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I have that PDF. It doesn't answer my question. It takes time to get liquids in/out of Paterson tanks. "Place the film into a tank and start the timer" is inadequate.

Whether you time when your first start to fill, mid fill or the end of filling does not matter. What matters is that you use the same timing start-end points consistently.

There are no silly questions here. Just the search for knowledge.
 

MattKing

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MattKing

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+1. This is the simplest and easiest way to keep everything consistent.
I have to admit I always found "Use last 10 seconds of this step to drain tank." too hard to follow.
Pouring (say 600ml) into a dev tank (like a Patterson for example) should only take 3-4 seconds and to drain it should be 2-3 sec. As had been said, it is the dev that is the most critical to time & temp
I expect the 10 second recommendation was based on steel reels and tanks - the slow pouring types!
 

pentaxuser

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. I am determined to do the standard process of 3:30 @102F and tomorrow is the day!

Bormental are these standard C41 films? I had always thought that the standard time for these was 3:15 @ 100F not 3:30 @ 102F . Fine if the film in question instructions call for a 2 degrees F increase over standard C41 processing and a 15 secs extra but while both temp and time increases would not in my opinion result in any kind of a disaster it might increase the contrast by more than is ideal

pentaxuser
 
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Bormental

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@pentaxuser The instructions for the Cinestill C-41 Kit offer two options. The "Standard" processing and the "Variable Temperature" table for temperatures from 72F to 95F. The standard processing states 3:30 @102F and yes, you're right, it's slightly different from Kodak Flexicolor PDFs.
 

pentaxuser

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Thanks for the reply. I am just a little surprised that any deviation from what many regard as the one correct temp and time for C41 hasn't raised a few comments.

pentaxuser
 
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Bormental

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@pentaxuser here's my theory on this: Kodak's instructions for small tank processing (CIS-211) say "2 inversions every 15 seconds". Cinestill instructions say "every 30 seconds". Less agitation = more time + temp.

Having read a bunch of Kodak PDFs, I really want to get a JOBO now.
 

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I think as Matt says, consistency is everything. Whatever processing steps you undertake, unless you really do make an obvious error, keep doing the same thing.

You may wish to add a 2% stop bath immediately after you have poured the developer out. This does two things, first and foremost, it immediately stops development dead instantly. Secondly, it will certainly reduce the amount of developer residue getting into the bleach, thereby making your bleach last longer. Another reason is that you can then relax and take your time and arrange things before your pour the bleach in. I myself use a 30 second stop bath and have done so for probably the last 25 years of C41 development.

Bleach is the most expensive part of the process, bleach has about double the processing capacity; meaning you can save a reasonable amount of money in the future if you get further into colour negative processing and start mixing much of your own chemistry from raw chemicals.

For colour processing, pretty much nothing is better than a Jobo rotary processor. If you do go down that route, then if you can, get a Jobo processor with a lift already attached. Having a lift allows you to time baths to within 1 second, day in day out.

The 1540 tank is probably the best tank for economy and efficiency. This tank, which will develop 4 rolls of 35mm or 4 rolls of 120 at a time effectively requires 500ml of chemistry. With Kodak, many moons ago giving their C41 process as 8 rolls of 135 film per litre, works in perfectly as you'll use exactly 1 litre of C41 chemistry for 8 rolls using the 1540 tank.

The 1540 tank is a single 1510 tank + the 1530 extension. The other tank that is handy to have is the 1520 tank, which, as the name implies, holds 2x rolls of 35mm film. You can also use the small 2500 tank to develop 4x5" sheet film, if your photography one day heads in that direction.

As far as I know, C41 process is 37.77ºC carried or as often stated 37.8ºC which effectively equates to 100ºF. Developing time is strictly 3'15", if you wish to push the film one stop, you add 30" which means that not stopping your development exactly at 3'15 but effectively stopping it at 3'30" you have pushed the film ½ a stop. C41 is the shortest standard film process I know of, so getting developing times right, or at least consistent for your first bath, is imperative.

When you push C41 you will find your mid-tones pretty much stay the same, however your highlights (white stuff in particular) will be brighter and maybe losing fine detail, while your shadows will be darker, tending to black earlier. So for some subjects, especially portraiture, you usually need to be careful about developing times in the first C41 bath.

As for agitation, we used nitrogen bursts in a deep tank processor, these gave a burst of gas every 8 seconds for virtually continuous solution movement to ensure very even and consistent development of the negatives. Rotary processing in a Jobo processor, gives constant agitation. I have processed C41 test strips in my home Jobo processsor which were virtually identical to our lab in their super controlled processing baths. What I'm trying to say, is that for very even development of C41 film, an almost constant agitation of the solution is where it is at. It does not need to be violent, gentle but constant agitation is your friend. In general, if you rotate a tank for agitation, then the chemistry will probably be flowing around for about 10-15 seconds after you place it back down. At around this time limit, the flow of fresh chemistry over the film pretty much stops, so another inversion or agitation movement is required. Remember this is an extremely short process, one cannot work on the basis that a longer processing time; which is standard for almost all other B&W, will even out any irregularities incurred due to lack of agitation.

My Jobo processor was the CPE2 with lift. I bought it new in the late 80's and processed literally thousands of rolls and sheet film in it. It died a couple of years ago after around 30 years of constant film processing, so I now develop once again by hand. But I am using a Jobo tank roller sitting in a tray of heated water and rotating the tank by hand, for my now minimal C41 film throughput; works a treat.

Mick.
 

mshchem

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Remember that negative film has a couple stops of latitude. So don't get to freaked out with the Kodak instructions just do it.
 

koraks

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Remember that negative film has a couple stops of latitude. So don't get to freaked out with the Kodak instructions just do it.
Latitude generally refers to tolerance in exposure, not development. C41 really works best when it's developed according to spec.

Of course, if the chemistry's datasheet says that 3:30 @ 102F are the correct variables to use, then it makes sense to stick to this. However, I would not expect severe consequences if standard C41 parameters would be used, i.e. 37.8C/100F for 3:15.
 

Steve906

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I've always used Tetenal kits. On their instructions it gives an alternative process of 30C/86F for 8 minutes.
I recall I did have some uneven results on some 120 film in the distant past, so switched to this and have been happy with the results ever since.
It is so much easier to hold 30C and at 8 minutes I would assume timing accuracy is less critical.
Can anyone suggest any degradation in image quality this could cause. I don't print in colour anymore so maybe I'm not seeing any subtle effects.
Steve.
 
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