RB67 Dark Slides

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Lukeod

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Hi there,

Quick question I'm finding it hard to confirm elsewhere. I'm wondering if dark slides for RB67 Pro S film backs work on Pro SD film backs, and vice versa.

If anyone out there has one of each and could confirm it would be very much appreciated!

Many thanks

(Edited to fix typo)
 
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Donald Qualls

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As far as I'm aware, the dark slides did not change from the original Pro backs (I have two, one of which came without a dark slide, along with a ProS) right through to the ProSD version. Japanese eBay sellers don't seem to make a distinction, and the closest examination I can give shows no difference I can discern. The dark slide interlock (prevents exposure with dark slide in, and prevents unlocking the Graflok back with dark slide out, though that has a fairly easy override) appeared in the ProS version of the body and was unchanged in the ProSD; the only change I know of in the backs (relative to the dark slide) was that you had to push a button on the ProSD backs to remove the dark slide when the back was off the camera.
 
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Lukeod

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Thank you for the reply! I got a Pro SD a few months ago, and promptly lost a dark slide. It seems surprisingly difficult to get replacements. I think I've found a "for parts" Pro S back though so I'll take a punt on that I think.

Thank again for your help - much appreciated.
 

Donald Qualls

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That's odd -- I had no trouble getting dark slides when I needed them; as noted, my camera came with two backs and one was missing the dark slide, and then I bought a 220 6x7 back (for 35mm pano), and that didn't have a dark slide, either. Both times, I just went to eBay and searched "RB67 dark slide" and found one or two for sale "from Japan". Buy It Now, wait a couple weeks, and Bob's your uncle. But now, the only one I see separately is "dented" -- actually looks like it was hit with a hammer while on a couch cushion...
 
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Lukeod

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I've been searching exactly as you described for a few weeks with no luck. I can't even see the dented one you mention though!

Hopefully this "for parts" one works out anyway.

By the way - love the idea of 35mm pano from a RB67! Must look into that. I've been wanting a 6x17 back for my 4x5 for ages, but I find the price hard to justify. Maybe this would scratch that itch for a while.
 

Donald Qualls

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It's certainly worth a try. 220 backs are relatively cheap, because 220 film has been gone for a good while, anyone who has a stash already has cameras and roll film holders for it, and it's not likely to come back as a mass produced item (despite rumors Shanghai is planning to reintroduce it).

You need a way to lock the main section of the first roller on the supply end of the insert to the small wheel at the edge that actually drives the frame counter -- I used a wrap and a half of electrical tape, but I may try to come up with something that will stay on better (perhaps silicone tape or a careful application of silicone caulk between the two parts), or else you have to guesstimate how far to move the lever (and how much to compensate as the film builds up on the spool) and dance with the double exposure lever (since the back won't tell the camera it's okay to fire the shutter if the frame counter hasn't advanced). It's a waste-saver to cut the trimmed leader square on your film, and attach a leader long enough to replace the 120/220 start section, at least up to the film start tape (this isn't required, but a 24 exposure roll is disappointingly short otherwise -- you waste almost half of it loading and advancing through the fogged leader). You can even take up to a cassette, to allow reloading without a changing bag (I used 35mm to 120 adapters, one set on each end, for this). and make a frame mask to cover the sprockets (or just use a mask in the viewfinder to let you compose to crop them off).

IOW, you can do this as basic or as sophisticated as you want. I'm headed for "Wow, I thought you were on a budget, how can you afford an Xpan?" -- my next RB purchase will be a 65mm lens, and then I'll start hunting for a bargain on a 50mm.
 

xya

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it gives very nice results, the pano adapter. mamiya rb 67, 50mm.

120_135_adapter_IMG_20191218_0003.jpg

scanned without sprockets

120_135_adapter_IMG_20191218_0003s.jpg

scanned with spocket, the scanner white balance gets a bit confused

120_135_adapter_IMG_20191218_0006.jpg

and another one. all scanned with dust and no post processing. have fun...
 

Donald Qualls

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Just processed a roll of mine that had an advance problem, only two frames, going to shoot another roll ASAP for Sprocktastic 2020 (an online contest, entries must have been exposed after July 15 and submitted on or before October 15).

@xya Is that the Mercury adapter? I'm building up my own capability, can't bring myself to pay their money. But I do like the 24x70 frames with the sprockets cropped off, even with the 90mm lens I have. I'd go straight to the 50mm, but they're expensive. Might manage if Congress ever spits out a second Economic Impact Payment (but now I don't think they will).
 
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Lukeod

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This looks like great fun - something I'll definitely have to try.

Thanks again for the help and unexpected project idea!
 

Jeremy Mudd

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I've been searching exactly as you described for a few weeks with no luck. I can't even see the dented one you mention though!

Hopefully this "for parts" one works out anyway.

By the way - love the idea of 35mm pano from a RB67! Must look into that. I've been wanting a 6x17 back for my 4x5 for ages, but I find the price hard to justify. Maybe this would scratch that itch for a while.

Just to clarify for certain -

ProS dark slides work with ProSD.

The only one to watch out for are the old Non-S or Non-SD slides. They actually work, but they have no cut-out for the interlock mechanism. I've modified them to work by tracing the outline of the notch onto one and cutting it out with a dremel.

Also, if you are looking at shooting 35mm pano's on an RB67, check out a blog I wrote about it here:

https://www.jeremymuddphoto.com/blog/2020/3/4/how-to-35mm-panoramic-film-images

Let me know if you have any questions. Happy Shooting!

Jeremy
 

xya

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@xya Is that the Mercury adapter? I'm building up my own capability, can't bring myself to pay their money. But I do like the 24x70 frames with the sprockets cropped off, even with the 90mm lens I have. I'd go straight to the 50mm, but they're expensive. Might manage if Congress ever spits out a second Economic Impact Payment (but now I don't think they will).
no, it was a cheap one bought off ebay a while ago. something like $10-12 + shipping. I wanted the winding spool as well to keep the film straight across the holder. no mask. btw: my 50mm came in a lot with the camera, otherwise I would not have been able to buy it.

120_135_adapter_IMG_3298.JPG


120_135_adapter_IMG_3300.JPG


120_135_adapter_IMG_3302.JPG
 

Donald Qualls

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Aaah. I haven't actually used a cassette takeup yet. I tested it in my Kiev 4, but after shooting 40 or so exposures on a 36 roll, I opened the camera in the dark and found all the film still in the supply -- eventually traced the problem to the takeup cassette holding the film up off the sprocket, and the clutch on the spool drive wasn't strong enough to pull the film through on its own. That problem won't exist in my 220 roll holder, but I want to get the leader and tail figured out before I spend too much effort on a single load.

I didn't have a problem with film straightness, even using a standard 120 spool. Get it centered to start with, and it stays centered. I do, however, have one of those adapter spools (came with my CCB 6x6 pinhole), as well as three sets of the cassette adapters (two I bought, one came with the CCB pinhole).

Eventually, what I'll set up is takeup to a cassette (to protect the exposed film), a leader long enough to load to the mark and not waste more than an inch or so of film (enough to see to tape the leader), plus a tail long enough to reach across the gate and into the takeup cassette, so when the advance locks, all the exposures are protected. I finally figure out a sensible way to put the tails on factory loaded cassettes (since apparently no one sells color 35mm for bulk loading any more). That means a 24mm mask and a drop-in composition frame for the viewfinder and I'll be ready to do 24x70 right.
 
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Lukeod

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Just to clarify for certain -

ProS dark slides work with ProSD.

The only one to watch out for are the old Non-S or Non-SD slides. They actually work, but they have no cut-out for the interlock mechanism. I've modified them to work by tracing the outline of the notch onto one and cutting it out with a dremel.

Also, if you are looking at shooting 35mm pano's on an RB67, check out a blog I wrote about it here:

https://www.jeremymuddphoto.com/blog/2020/3/4/how-to-35mm-panoramic-film-images

Let me know if you have any questions. Happy Shooting!

Jeremy

Thank you Jeremy - on both counts! That blog post is excellent and makes it seem very manageable. Looking on eBay there are plenty of 220/120 backs out there. Do these work or does it have to be the dedicated 220 back? I don't see so many of those.

Thanks again.
 

Donald Qualls

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The limitations of a 120 back for pano/sprocket is that the pressure plate is set up for film with backing paper (you can tape on a piece of backing paper to fix that), and it only makes 10 exposures -- which is just about enough for 24 exposure 135 rolls with 14 inches wasted for loading (in fact, you'll get about six). Obviously, you'll want to use a reversible method of locking the pieces of the roller together to make the counter work, if you want to preserve the ability to use 120 film as well.
 

Jeremy Mudd

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Thank you Jeremy - on both counts! That blog post is excellent and makes it seem very manageable. Looking on eBay there are plenty of 220/120 backs out there. Do these work or does it have to be the dedicated 220 back? I don't see so many of those.

Thanks again.

You're welcome!

220 back versus 120 back for this is a bit of a hornet's nest discussion. :smile:

I personally feel that a 220 back is better because:

1. The 220 back was designed with 220 film that has no backing paper and therefor the same thickness as 35mm film.
2. If you connect the solid roller on the left (non-crank) side of the back with the little rubber wheel above it by means of superglue or some other method, and use a paper film leader made out of used 120 backing paper, you can in effect count your shots with the counter and would therefor need a back that can count higher than 10. That said, I prefer to just set the back to double exposure and keep count myself. I only lose a little bit of the film at the beginning of the 35mm roll this way and its easier, in my opinion, than messing around with a leader and taping it to the film.

That said, there is an opposing view of thought that the 120 back works just fine if you aren't keen on needing to keep count of the frames and set the back to double exposure mode. Since I wrote that blog, I've tested both, and there is a very slight difference in plane of focus between the two**. It's super slight, and unless you are shooting wide open at something that's very thin, you'd probably not notice. So for 99.9% of the time it's probably just fine.

Hope that helps,

Jeremy

**Now cue some a-hole that will proceed to tell me how wrong I am and that I don't know what I am doing. That's OK, the two people that will say that are both on my ignore list so I won't have to deal with them. :smile:
 

Donald Qualls

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I agree -- the film position difference is only a few thousandths of an inch, and it's easy enough to tape a piece of backing to the pressure plate if it worries you -- but the 220 back is easier to use, IMO. Lock the rollers, use the counter, and you waste less film between frames, and you can get two wide frames (not quite three) into a 35mm negative page. Leader saves on film waste, but isn't at all necessary to try it out.
 
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Lukeod

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Right. I'm definitely going to lurk on Ebay for a 220 holder and do this. Going with a 220 back to waste less film makes sense, since to me the big advantage of this over just cropping 120 film is the volume of images on one roll of 35mm.

Thanks both - this has been a far more productive query (for me!) than I expected!
 

Donald Qualls

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If you make up a leader to match the length of a 120/220 paper leader (distance from start mark to film start is the critical dimension), you can get about 17-18 images on a roll of 35mm with careful loading. The actual image isn't quite as wide as two of the 24x36 frames, but the 6x7 film backs leave more space between frames; otherwise you could get 19-20.
 
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Lukeod

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I'm going to see if I can pull this stuff together and come straight back here to figure it all out. Thanks again!
 
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