Rare red dot Leica M4-2?

Huss · Oct 16, 2021

Leica made a small number of M4-2 cameras with the deliciously gaudy metallic red dot that they used on the M4-P.

Mine has that. Serial #1504101.

Here's the quandary, that serial # supposedly is not meant to have the red dot so this apparently is a 'fake' red dot M4-2.
But when I examine it, it is perfectly placed in the vulcanite - not a recovered camera - which could only have come from the factory. No aftermarket covering is the hard (and eventually brittle) vulcanite that I am aware of.

Leica often had weird production batches which were not meant to be were they were in the serial # order of things, so is this a real red dot M4-2, or a really good repro? Perfect example is trying to determine which are the real black paint M4 cameras. Those serial #s are also all over the place outside the main batches.

Hmm.

faberryman · Oct 16, 2021

Maybe it was sent back to Leica sometime in the 1980s for a new covering and they didn't have any replacement coverings except ones with a red dot.

Huss · Oct 16, 2021

faberryman said:
Maybe it was sent back to Leica sometime in the 1980s for a new covering and they didn't have any replacement coverings except ones with a red dot.

I doubt it because the original cover would still have been relatively new. Vulcanite lasts decades before it starts to chip/crumble. The vulcanite on this camera has a small chip by the eyelet and by the base plate.
But who knows?

madNbad · Oct 16, 2021

It could have been a top plate that had been in stock for a couple of years and was used at the beginning of the M4-P run. Or maybe the original owner really liked that big red dot. Another Leica mystery.

awty · Oct 16, 2021

How embarrassing, wonder if you can have it removed.

Huss · Oct 16, 2021

awty said:
How embarrassing, wonder if you can have it removed.

I'm looking for a way to add more, to have a red Leica polka dot M4-2.

awty · Oct 16, 2021

I usually carry mine in hand with a finger strategically covering the white Leica logo, be too hard to cover both by hand. Guess some duct tape would suffice.
I get a strong urge, when seeing someone with a red dot leica worn with a shoulder strap like a fashion accessory, to jam the camera into their face. Not sure why, not generally a violent person, but something just set me off.

reddesert · Oct 16, 2021

The really rare ones are the ones where the red dot was printed upside down.

OrientPoint · Oct 17, 2021

I have a M4-P with no red dot at all, and no indication it was ever applied. The covering is original. I'm told it's a "rare" dotless example. I'm just glad the dot's not there. Too gaudy for my taste.

Huss · Oct 17, 2021

awty said:
I get a strong urge, when seeing someone with a red dot leica worn with a shoulder strap like a fashion accessory, to jam the camera into their face. .

it is admirable that you want to help them take pictures.

Huss · Oct 17, 2021

reddesert said:
The really rare ones are the ones where the red dot was printed upside down.

Those are for the markets south of the equator.

maddoc2021jp · Oct 17, 2021

What does the seal look like, original?

Don_ih · Oct 17, 2021

Your serial number is 500 after mine. Mine has no red dot. Does that dot line up with where a self-timer might go?

Cholentpot · Oct 17, 2021

All a bunch of knock offs I say

This is the original red dot

Also, if someone has one of these that's dependable I'm open for negotiations. This one's rangefinder is uncalibratable. The screws are stripped out.

Huss · Oct 17, 2021

Cholentpot said:
All a bunch of knock offs I say

This is the original red dot

Also, if someone has one of these that's dependable I'm open for negotiations. This one's rangefinder is uncalibratable. The screws are stripped out.

That masking tape is stunning.

Cholentpot · Oct 17, 2021

Huss said:
That masking tape is stunning.

I was supposed to cover the red dot...

Huss · Oct 17, 2021

Don Heisz said:
Your serial number is 500 after mine. Mine has no red dot. Does that dot line up with where a self-timer might go?

Self timers ended with the M5.

But that is the thing with serial #s, Leica's production runs were (are?) haphazard. Which is why there are OG black paint cameras popping up randomly etc. Even though they 'shouldn't' be black paints w the serial # they have.

Huss · Oct 17, 2021

maddoc2021jp said:
What does the seal look like, original?

Nope. But not sure what an original seal is meant to mean, apart from the camera never having being serviced. Almost as good as buying a 30 year old car with the original oil filter and oil..

250swb · Oct 17, 2021

I think if you do a Google search you'll find some more M4-2 with the red dot, and given not all red dot M4-2 are on the internet you can be sure there are a lot more around. In the era Leica did a lot of retrofitting parts, and rehearsing new parts. I would guess they were simply using up some old vulcanite and needed a logo to stick in the hole, but then maybe thought the red dot logo was a good look for the upcoming M4-P. The cart did come before the horse, you can find one on a Google search with the serial starting 1503xxx, so before the OP's camera. The Leica M4-2 brochure for Spring 1977 even shows the camera with a red dot.

maddoc2021jp · Oct 17, 2021

Huss said:
Nope. But not sure what an original seal is meant to mean, apart from the camera never having being serviced. Almost as good as buying a 30 year old car with the original oil filter and oil..

It could give a hint if the camera left the factory like this or was later modified by somebody else but I just googled the list of the different wax seals and it looks like Leica stopped using them starting with the M4-2.

John Koehrer · Oct 19, 2021

The original seal with "L" is new factory or factory service. There are some with other letters from non Wetzlar service.

Rare red dot Leica M4-2?

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