rapid selenium toner question

[Stewart Martin]

Kodak doesn't make Rapid Selenium Toner in gallons anymore, only quarts, which is expensive. I've been thinking of switching to another manufacturer that sells it in larger quantities.

My questions are:
-Does anyone know about how this chemical is formulated?
-Is there any standardization between the different manufacturers?

If I do switch to another manufacturer I'm afraid my toning times will be wildly different. Thanks very much.

 

[Sirius Glass]

Welcome to APUG.

Do an APUG search. This has been covered recently.

Steve

 

[Anscojohn]

Kodak doesn't make Rapid Selenium Toner in gallons anymore, only quarts, which is expensive. I've been thinking of switching to another manufacturer that sells it in larger quantities.

My questions are:
-Does anyone know about how this chemical is formulated?
-Is there any standardization between the different manufacturers?

If I do switch to another manufacturer I'm afraid my toning times will be wildly different. Thanks very much.

******
My understanding is that selenium out of solution is not something one should mess with.

 

[bsdunek]

I use Kentmere. It only comes in quart size, but it's a little less than Kodak and seems to work the same. Freestyle has Fotospeed that comes in 5 or 10 liter sizes. I've never used it, but it would be worth a try.

 

[RalphLambrecht]

******
My understanding is that selenium out of solution is not something one should mess with.

Correct! Also, sulphide toning is easier to formulate and more archival. Give it a try!

 

[Colin Corneau]

Didn't know about sulphide toning, or its archival properties. Selenium renders prints more stable and therefore archival, no?

 

[fschifano]

Yes, to a degree. I've read some anecdotal evidence that selenium toning is not as effective as was once thought, and that for the best acchival permanence, selenium toning should be carried to completion. Still other evidence indicates that suphide toning provides more permanence. However, sulphide toning is also commonly known as sepia toning and will dramatically change the color of your print from black and white to yellow/brown and white. You may or may not like the effect. It doesn't work for everything.

 

[Chazzy]

Is Kodak brown toner considered a sulphide toner, or is the active ingredient something else? If so, what?

 

[RalphLambrecht]

Is Kodak brown toner considered a sulphide toner, or is the active ingredient something else? If so, what?

Yes, it is a sulphide toner, says so on the tin! (polysulphide)

 

[RalphLambrecht]

******
My understanding is that selenium out of solution is not something one should mess with.

It's toxic and easily inhaled. I would stay well away from it.

 

[RalphLambrecht]

Colin and Frank

Selenium and sulphide, both, are considered archival toners. As you said, full toning requires a full conversion from silver to silver-selenide or silver-sulphide. A full conversion might not be what you want aesthetically, however. No need to have an ugly permanent print, right? Anyway, some toning is always better than none, and that's where the difference is.

Even very brief sulphide toning will provide reasonable protection. This is true even if the toning is so brief that there is nothing more than a slight warming of the print, which you only see if it is next to an untoned print. Selenium needs a more significant toning to provide a similar protection.

Also, sulphide toning must be divided into direct and indirect toning. Indirect toning requires a bleach and redevelopment of the image with significant tonal change, as Frank said (I neither like nor practice this type of toning). Direct toning does not require a prior bleaching step and is as easy as selenium toning. Agfa Viradon and Kodak Brown Toner can both be used for direct toning.

The only disadvantage is the strong odor. I do it in a well-ventilated room or outside.

You can also try selenium, followed by sulphide, which gives a nice split-toning effect with warm highlights and cool shadows.

 

[CBG]

To get round the odor, there are sulfiding thiourea toners that supply sulfide from the thiourea rather than sodium sulfide. Thiourea is alternately known as thiocarbamide.

Hypo-Alum toners also have a lesser odor than the famously smelly sodium sulfide toners. Hypo-alum toners are not the most convenient to use, but do lower the stink.

 

[Anscojohn]

To get round the odor, there are sulfiding thiourea toners that supply sulfide from the thiourea rather than sodium sulfide. Thiourea is alternately known as thiocarbamide.

Hypo-Alum toners also have a lesser odor than the famously smelly sodium sulfide toners. Hypo-alum toners are not the most convenient to use, but do lower the stink.

******
Thiorea is a known carcinogen, is it not?

 

[RalphLambrecht]

To get round the odor, there are sulfiding thiourea toners that supply sulfide from the thiourea rather than sodium sulfide. Thiourea is alternately known as thiocarbamide.

Hypo-Alum toners also have a lesser odor than the famously smelly sodium sulfide toners. Hypo-alum toners are not the most convenient to use, but do lower the stink.

The archival properties of thiourea rather than sodium sulfide are unknown to me. Can they be used for direct toning?