Rapid Fix Longevity

[ColColt]

I mixed up some Kodak Rapid Fixer with hardener back in mid May thinking I'd be shooting more than I have but due to unusually hot weather and some health problems haven't shot much. I've processed two rolls in the quart of fixer I mixed and I'm wondering if now it's any good at all. I couldn't find any info on the keeping properties in a brown glass bottle or any other container once mixed. It seems like it's two months but can't recall.

Anyone shed some light on that?

 

[MattKing]

If you had left in unmixed, Kodak says: "indefinite"
As you mixed it up into working solution, Kodak says "working solution in tank: 1 month".

http://imaging.kodakalaris.com/sites/prod/files/files/resources/e103cf.pdf

 

[ColColt]

It's not in a tank or tray, it's in a container with a tightly closed cap.

 

[MattKing]

A tank would be the closest comparison (on the Kodak info) to the container with a closed cap.

But anecdotally, my 1.75 litres of mixed up, film strength Kodak Rapid Fixer without hardener usually lasts that long in a capped bottle if I don't use it up within that time.

Do a clip test to check: (there was a url link here which no longer exists)

 

[ColColt]

I'll do that before attempting to use it. It's been so God awful hot here with temperatures constantly in the 90's for what seems like since June, I just can't hack being out long in that kind of weather to take pictures.

 

[Photo Engineer]

If it is turning yellow or getting cloudy, or if it smells like rotten eggs it is bad. Any precipitate is bad and a scum forming on the bottle is bad. If it is clear and smells like acid fix, then it is good.

Test it on some film.

PE

 

[ColColt]

I had a batch not long back that I had ran only 10 rolls through and next time I noticed it looked cloudy. I had thought you could get more than that out of it but in retrospect, it was also just a bit over two months old, IIRC.

 

[Photo Engineer]

It isn't a matter of longevity, it is a matter of unstable chemicals decomposing.

PE

 

[ciniframe]

Just curious, what is the break down reaction?

 

[Slixtiesix]

If you stored it in a closed bottle it should be perfectly fine with just two films run through it. I used film fix for a whole season (April-September) before I tossed it.

 

[RalphLambrecht]

I'd go with PE's advise above.He knows what he's talking about.

 

[AgX]

It isn't a matter of longevity, it is a matter of unstable chemicals decomposing.

What is the difference between those two?

Or do you refer to longevity in the meaning of image-stability? Something I first thought of when reading the headline.

 

[MattKing]

Do not add the hardener, unless you have specific (and nowadays unusual) need for it. Just replace its volume with water.

The hardener on its own is useful if you tone your prints.

 

[ColColt]

The hardener on its own is useful if you tone your prints.

I've added the hardener ever since I started doing B&W. Of course, I'm referring only to the film.

 

[Photo Engineer]

What is the difference between those two?

Or do you refer to longevity in the meaning of image-stability? Something I first thought of when reading the headline.

A fine distinction indeed.

HQ reacts with air leading to dead developer. CO2 can drop pH leading to dead developer. These are matters of longevity IMHO because there is nothing in the solution to intentionally cause the solution to go bad. However, a fix at acid pH is poised on a knife edge of stability due to the pH itself, air, Sulfite and the inherent instability of hypo itself. In other words, a sealed developer might theoretically never go bad, but a fixer would always go bad.

This is a real dilemma and a fine distinction, but a real one.

PE

 

[Mainecoonmaniac]

My question is if film is cleared with bad fixer, did it do it's job of removing unexposed silver? Can bad fixer shorten the life of negatives?

 

[Gerald C Koch]

My question is if film is cleared with bad fixer, did it do it's job of removing unexposed silver? Can bad fixer shorten the life of negatives?

The problem with fixer that has started to sulfurize is not that it will not fix film but rather that the colloidal sulfur can deposit on the film. Once this happens it is impossible to remove.

How long fixer remains useable depends in part on how it is stored. The higher the temperature the faster it is will sulfurize. Fixer will last longer without the addition of the acidic hardener solution. A simple sodium thiosulfate solution with sodium sulfite will last a very long time since it is slightly alkaline rather than acidic.

 

[ColColt]

I'm still at the point of wondering if Rapid Fix(with or without hardener) once mixed and stored in a container should be tossed after two months, whether it has the ability to fix or not due to this...

The problem with fixer that has started to sulfurize is not that it will not fix film but rather that the colloidal sulfur can deposit on the film. Once this happens it is impossible to remove.

 

[Terry B]

I'm still at the point of wondering if Rapid Fix(with or without hardener) once mixed and stored in a container should be tossed after two months, whether it has the ability to fix or not due to this...

A simple test will show you if the fixer is still active. You can carry this out in daylight. Place a piece of unexposed film into the fixer and time it for the recommended fixing period. If the film clears, all is well.

 

[Photo Engineer]

Test the fix with a strip of film. If it fixes, it is good. No matter what though, if it is cloudy or has a precipitate, do not use it. It can cause the precipitate to ruin your film as well as giving incomplete fixing.

PE

 

[darkroommike]

Adding to what has already been said, fixation is a complicated process. "Bad fixer" overused, wrong dilution, etc. can still clear film but there are numerous argentothiosulfate by products and some do not wash out of the gelatin silver complex others are more soluble and wash out readily. The "bad" argenthiosulfates can later sulfurize and turn the emulsion a rather disturbing yellow. Once that happens I don't think there is an easy remedy.

 

[Photo Engineer]

That is why a retained silver test and a retained hypo test is recommended on your film and paper.

PE

 

[ColColt]

A batch I had not too long back looked cloudy when I poured it in the graduate so I dumped it, even though I hadn't put that many rolls through it. I think it was age more than usage. I'll look for the same and the precipitate...thanks.

 

[Mainecoonmaniac]

That is why a retained silver test and a retained hypo test is recommended on your film and paper.

PE

Is that the same as the Kodak HT-2 residual hypo test?

 

[Photo Engineer]

There are 2 tests. Kodak sold both test solutions at one time. Remember there are 2 tests. (Three actually - one supplemental test tests for Iodide exhaustion in the fix, but that one is very hard to read)

PE