RA-4 which fuji chemicals

[Marja]

Hi, I am using fuji paper and I would like to switch from tetenal 5 L kit to fuji chemicals. I use trays. Anybody a suggestion which fuji is good for tray development? I read fuji hunt? Enviro... Mp60 or 160? I have no clue what the difference is. Perhaps somebody is using something else? Tips would be welcome. And developers and starters... How does that work?

Thanks!

 

[koraks]

The difference is the replenishment rate. Enviroprint MP160 is 160ml per m2, 60 is 60ml per m2. Otherwise functionally identical. The differences are outlined in the Fuji datasheets, they can be hard to find but Google does help.
Both MP60 and MP160 (and all the others in between) will work in trays, so just get whatever you can get your hands on. I use MP90 currently because that's what my retailer had on stock when I ordered.
For blix it's the same story but there's less to choose from, but any RA4 blix will work OK.

As to developer starter: I don't use a starter but instead I seasoned my developer by running some sheets of old paper through it. After that I just replenished and never discard the working stock in its entirety.

I'm going to take a guess based on your name you're from either The Netherlands or Belgium; in this case the Enviroprint chemistry is easy to get for you, but you may have to order from Germany to get a good price and shift delivery.

 

[halfaman]

I use Fuji Hunt chemicals but on a Jobo processor with good results. Never used trays with RA4.

Fuji Hunt RA4 chemicals are sold under the denominations "Enviroprint" or "CPRA Digital Pro" and they are intented for minilabs, so expect big lot quantites. Minimum to make 20 liters of replenisher, more if it is working/tank solution. You can read everything about dilutions and times in this document:

https://asset.fujifilm.com/www/es/files/2021-05/7b55be27c9929a58de46d5c65037fe72/TB_RA4_E01_10-20.pdf

 

[Marja]

The difference is the replenishment rate. Enviroprint MP160 is 160ml per m2, 60 is 60ml per m2. Otherwise functionally identical. The differences are outlined in the Fuji datasheets, they can be hard to find but Google does help.
Both MP60 and MP160 (and all the others in between) will work in trays, so just get whatever you can get your hands on. I use MP90 currently because that's what my retailer had on stock when I ordered.
For blix it's the same story but there's less to choose from, but any RA4 blix will work OK.

As to developer starter: I don't use a starter but instead I seasoned my developer by running some sheets of old paper through it. After that I just replenished and never discard the working stock in its entirety.

I'm going to take a guess based on your name you're from either The Netherlands or Belgium; in this case the Enviroprint chemistry is easy to get for you, but you may have to order from Germany to get a good price and shift delivery.

Netherlands;-) And thanks!

 

[Marja]

I use Fuji Hunt chemicals but on a Jobo processor with good results. Never used trays with RA4.

Fuji Hunt RA4 chemicals are sold under the denominations "Enviroprint" or "CPRA Digital Pro" and they are intented for minilabs, so expect big lot quantites. Minimum to make 20 liters of replenisher, more if it is working/tank solution. You can read everything about dilutions and times in this document:

https://asset.fujifilm.com/www/es/files/2021-05/7b55be27c9929a58de46d5c65037fe72/TB_RA4_E01_10-20.pdf

Thanks!

 

[koraks]

Minimum to make 20 liters of replenisher

I think minimum of 40L in fact, but perhaps I missed an even smaller product. However, it's not necessary to make it all up in one go. Usually the actual packaging is for instance 4x12.5L (for MP90) with the actual concentrate bottles being 2.5L. What I do is I only make up what I need and decant the remainder of the opened concentrate bottle into glass bottles so I'm always left with entirely full bottles. These last a loooong time and don't take up too much space. The unopened concentrate bottles also last very long evidently. This helps because tray development is insanely economical when it comes to chemistry use.

 

[foc]

Has anyone ever tried the RA4 Fuji CP48 chemical cartridge used in minilabs?

They contained 3 chemical concentrates, dev, bleach-fix part A, bleach-fix part B. They were designed for wet lab Frontiers and each cartridge (they were sold in boxes of 2) would make a total of (IIRC) 5L dev, 5L bleach-fix.

 

[halfaman]

I think minimum of 40L in fact, but perhaps I missed an even smaller product. However, it's not necessary to make it all up in one go. Usually the actual packaging is for instance 4x12.5L (for MP90) with the actual concentrate bottles being 2.5L. What I do is I only make up what I need and decant the remainder of the opened concentrate bottle into glass bottles so I'm always left with entirely full bottles. These last a loooong time and don't take up too much space. The unopened concentrate bottles also last very long evidently. This helps because tray development is insanely economical when it comes to chemistry use.

It is not about shelf life or such but the quantity. You need to be very sure that RA4 is what you want to do if you buy Fuji Hunt. You are going to purchase a huge ammount of chemistry for an amateur that will take probably quite some years to spend.

By the way, I remember that Tetenal has the "Universal paper start-up kit". There are two kits, one for CD and one for Blix, to make 2x4.5 liters of working solution. They are meant to fill empty minilab tanks. I used them as an intermediate step between Tetenal Colortec kits and Fuji Hunt chemicals. At least in Spain I can still buy both from a minilab supplier for around 100€ (50€ each one).

 

[koraks]

huge ammount

For a very modest per-liter cost. My chemistry startup costs for RA4 were about €125 if memory serves. That made me 50l of developer and 20l of blix. Yes, that's a lot of juice when doing trays, but cost-wise it didn't hurt particularly much.

 

[halfaman]

For a very modest per-liter cost. My chemistry startup costs for RA4 were about €125 if memory serves. That made me 50l of developer and 20l of blix. Yes, that's a lot of juice when doing trays, but cost-wise it didn't hurt particularly much.

Absolutely, from cost per liter perspective Fuji Hunt is the best option by far.

 

[sillo]

Absolutely, from cost per liter perspective Fuji Hunt is the best option by far.

Champion is pretty close in cost. 60L of developer replenisher is $80 and 40L of blix is $85

 

[AgX]

In Europe Champion seems at the colour field only doing B-to-B sales and this even veiled, even for their B&W chemicals I only know of one retailer.
Here your calculation fails for the OP.

Moreover the OP explicetely asked for Fuji chemicals. But there are more bulk options in Europe than Fuji.

 

[koraks]

Here your calculation fails.

No, you and I and OP fail. And @halfaman as well. We fail to reside in the US or if need be Canada, which of course everybody knows is where all people live.
What..you mean that there are other countries, even continents? That's preposterous!

 

[sillo]

In Europe Champion seems at the colour field only doing B-to-B sales and this even veiled, even for their B&W chemicals I only know of one retailer.
Here your calculation fails for the OP.

Moreover the OP explicetely asked for Fuji chemicals. But there are more bulk options in Europe than Fuji.

My response wasn't directed at the OP, I was explicitly responding to the statement "from cost per liter perspective Fuji Hunt is the best option by far." They didn't say best option by far in Europe, they just said it was the best option by far. Since @koraks so kindly pointed out that not everyone lives in North America, I'll point out that not everyone who stumbles across this thread will live in Europe.

 

[koraks]

Come on, I was pulling your leg.

But yeah, it was one European responding to another European in a thread that started with a question where to get chemistry in Europe. So it wasn't all that odd that AgX commented on your reply the way he did. In fact I almost did as well, but changed my mind.

 

[BMbikerider]

Being unable to buy Kodak I went onto using Fuji (With a few problems at first but not connected with the chemicals)

The kit I bought was Fuji Hunt CPRA Digital Pro. (Odourless) It is very close to being half the price of the Kodak equivalent too. The box contains 2 bottles one of 'A' and 1 of 'B' You have to use a starter as well bought separately.

It is used in a 12x16 Nova processor. After I sorted out the initial problems (light fogging from a fire smoke alarm LED) the results are very good. Good contrast but with significantly different filtration on my LPL7700. The replenishment rate is around 270cc per square meter of paper which is not far removed from the Kodak version which was 100cc per 800 sq. ins. of paper.

You have to be careful not to over replenish where to the point you cannot get a black but a blue and the current chemistry is toast! I was advised by Fuji, never to go over 300cc per square meter.