Dear Bill,
Was there a US coating plant for Agfacolor via Agfa/Ansco?
Not arguing: just ignorant.
Cheers,
R.
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Dear Bill,
Was there a US coating plant for Agfacolor via Agfa/Ansco?
Not arguing: just ignorant.
Cheers,
R.
OP
OP
The Agfa (Agfa Ansco) plant in Binghamton NY produced an Agfa color film and Paper (I think). The paper was not in production at the start of the war AFAIK though and only reversal materials may have been made in the US.
At the start of the war, the Agfa plant was taken over from Agfa (nationalized) and run by the US government until the 60s. Germans working there whent it was nationalized were given the option of returning to Germany or remaining in the US. There were a bit of both types - some left and some stayed.
The plant continued as Ansco and produced reversal color film (Anscochrome) and a reversal color paper (Printon) until they closed the doors. In the early 60s, they attempted to produce a negative color paper. I have samples printed on it. It was reintroduced in the late 60s or early 70s and was the subject of the Ansco law suit against Kodak. They claimed that their paper was incompatible with the new 3 solution Ektaprint 3 process as they had designed it for the Ektaprint C or P122 process, and won the suit. (In fact, it worked just fine in the process with a minor tweak to the development, but they won anyhow, Kodak being the big meany....)
PE
At the start of the war, the Agfa plant was taken over from Agfa (nationalized) and run by the US government until the 60s. Germans working there whent it was nationalized were given the option of returning to Germany or remaining in the US. There were a bit of both types - some left and some stayed.
The plant continued as Ansco and produced reversal color film (Anscochrome) and a reversal color paper (Printon) until they closed the doors. In the early 60s, they attempted to produce a negative color paper. I have samples printed on it. It was reintroduced in the late 60s or early 70s and was the subject of the Ansco law suit against Kodak. They claimed that their paper was incompatible with the new 3 solution Ektaprint 3 process as they had designed it for the Ektaprint C or P122 process, and won the suit. (In fact, it worked just fine in the process with a minor tweak to the development, but they won anyhow, Kodak being the big meany....)
PE
Dear PE,
Sorry; I should have said during WW2. I have some old Anscochromes from the late 40s/early 50s -- and very nasty they are!
Cheers,
R.
Sorry; I should have said during WW2. I have some old Anscochromes from the late 40s/early 50s -- and very nasty they are!
Cheers,
R.
OP
OP
Roger, AFAIK, there was production of color materials at the plant in the US before the war, but it did not use the same formulas as the German plant. OTOH, the only real new item we learned from Agfa records after the war was about gold sensitization. I do know that some materials were only imported from Germany.
We also learned the precise contents of some solutions that were shipped from Germany with only a coded designation and which became unavailable at the start of the war. The US plant was forced to improvise regarding those itmes, I suppose.
All of the chemicals in use by Agfa were known to Kodak except for gold.
At this point, no one really knows what went on at Agfa-Ansco before the war as most of the chief scientists and managers elected to return to Germany IIRC.
PE
We also learned the precise contents of some solutions that were shipped from Germany with only a coded designation and which became unavailable at the start of the war. The US plant was forced to improvise regarding those itmes, I suppose.
All of the chemicals in use by Agfa were known to Kodak except for gold.
At this point, no one really knows what went on at Agfa-Ansco before the war as most of the chief scientists and managers elected to return to Germany IIRC.
PE
In May 1935 it was decided at Agfa to go the neg/pos way as one was afraid Mannes&Godowsky patents could block the reversal way. But in October Schneider decided himself to turn to a reversal film instead in order to yield showable results in shorter time. But in ’36 the work on a pos/neg system was revived and the photopaper plant in Leverkusen involved in the development. In 1938 the negativ (cine) film went into production. Aside from the success of this system there was a patent quarrel between Kodak and IG Farben, where Agfa was part of, on the neg/pos issue which was only settled in 1943!! (the business goes on). It took until 1942 for the Leverkusen plant to start small scale production of the color paper. Though there were experimental papers used before to be pinned in cinema showcases of which Agfa was glad if they yielded color for 14 days.
ANSCO started with a color film only in 1942
On the Ferrania issue: Agfacolor had no patent protection Italy in ’42.
(Aside: Schneider while working in Switzerland for Tellko in 1946 was going to be taken by Edgerton to an interrogation but refused to accompany him out of fear to be taken by him by force to Germany [US Occupational Zone].)
ANSCO started with a color film only in 1942
On the Ferrania issue: Agfacolor had no patent protection Italy in ’42.
(Aside: Schneider while working in Switzerland for Tellko in 1946 was going to be taken by Edgerton to an interrogation but refused to accompany him out of fear to be taken by him by force to Germany [US Occupational Zone].)
Dear Roger
What a pleasure to have you reply.
You may argue any time.
Apparently all these companies announced simultaneously. Given the association of these governments and business at the time, I wonder if there was sharing of the necessary information then.
"George Eastman House
Photography Timeline
1940 Ansco, Agfa, and Sakura Natural color film introduced
1941 Eastman Kodak introduces Kodacolor negative film"
This is a timeline of Anscos activities in Birmingham N.Y. and I must confess that I presumed the paper and film went together.
Dead Link Removed
"1942
Ansco color film is introduced. It is the first American color film which can be processed by the user. Ansco color paper is also introduced. Unfortunately, no film or paper is available for the amateur market. All production is directed to the government."
In this oral History, Glennan describes Ansco making the first competitive American made color film, and mentions Gaevert in Belgium. Since Kodak came out with their color negative film a year later I presumed this reference referred to negative film.
http://airandspace.si.edu/research/dsh/TRANSCPT/GLENNAN3.HTM
Than I came across this which put that thought in the dustbin.
http://www.fiafnet.org/pdf/uk/04FIAF66.pdf
Ansco Color was one of the very first
35mm chromagenic tri-pack film
systems to be used for feature films.
General Aniline Co, of Binghampton, NY,
USA, had an agreement with Agfa before
WW2, and used Agfa technology for film
manufacture from 1940. However,
instead of using the semi-experimental
Agfa negative-positive process, they
based their system on the reversal Afga
Neue sold from 1936 for stills. The
process was initially only used by the
military, but by 1945/6 three films were
available, a camera film, a low contrast
duplicating intermediate, and a print
film. All were reversal. In many respects
the system was similar to Kodachrome,
and the later Ektachrome Commercial,
but was available in 35mm and 16mm.
So it seems my comments are more to be applied to reversal film.
One last titbit, apparently Joe Rosenthals Iwo Jima photo was done on Ansco film, albeit Black and White.
Double Cheers
Bill
What a pleasure to have you reply.
You may argue any time.
Apparently all these companies announced simultaneously. Given the association of these governments and business at the time, I wonder if there was sharing of the necessary information then.
"George Eastman House
Photography Timeline
1940 Ansco, Agfa, and Sakura Natural color film introduced
1941 Eastman Kodak introduces Kodacolor negative film"
This is a timeline of Anscos activities in Birmingham N.Y. and I must confess that I presumed the paper and film went together.
Dead Link Removed
"1942
Ansco color film is introduced. It is the first American color film which can be processed by the user. Ansco color paper is also introduced. Unfortunately, no film or paper is available for the amateur market. All production is directed to the government."
In this oral History, Glennan describes Ansco making the first competitive American made color film, and mentions Gaevert in Belgium. Since Kodak came out with their color negative film a year later I presumed this reference referred to negative film.
http://airandspace.si.edu/research/dsh/TRANSCPT/GLENNAN3.HTM
Than I came across this which put that thought in the dustbin.
http://www.fiafnet.org/pdf/uk/04FIAF66.pdf
Ansco Color was one of the very first
35mm chromagenic tri-pack film
systems to be used for feature films.
General Aniline Co, of Binghampton, NY,
USA, had an agreement with Agfa before
WW2, and used Agfa technology for film
manufacture from 1940. However,
instead of using the semi-experimental
Agfa negative-positive process, they
based their system on the reversal Afga
Neue sold from 1936 for stills. The
process was initially only used by the
military, but by 1945/6 three films were
available, a camera film, a low contrast
duplicating intermediate, and a print
film. All were reversal. In many respects
the system was similar to Kodachrome,
and the later Ektachrome Commercial,
but was available in 35mm and 16mm.
So it seems my comments are more to be applied to reversal film.
One last titbit, apparently Joe Rosenthals Iwo Jima photo was done on Ansco film, albeit Black and White.
Double Cheers
Bill
OP
OP
Konishiroku (Sakura films = cherry blossom films) was the most prominent Japanese film maker before the war and up to partway through the war. Konishiroku Emon was a friend of George Eastman and they worked together early in the 20th century on film. George Eastman was a guest at the Hachioji plant during a visit to Japan.
When Konica began drifting towards Germany, Eastman severed his ties to Konica, but Konika continued to agressively do R&D using Agfa and Kodak technology both. Their final products were a color negative film and paper similar to Agfa and a color reversal film similar to Kodachrome. I have samples of all of these and process chemistry (now badly expired).
Agfa color paper was only produced for a neg-pos system, and used emulsions similar to Brovira paper but with other addenda. The yellow was on top and the coating had a CLS (yellow) filter layer under it. The process and emulsions/coupler chemistry was far different than that used after the war.
Ansco produced only a reversal paper (Printon) at first, and did not produced the neg-pos paper until the early 60s. We were given one of the first demonstrations of it when I was at Cape Canaveral. It was given by Mr. Walt Wall of Ansco. I still have the pictures he gave me printed on Ansco color paper.
PE
When Konica began drifting towards Germany, Eastman severed his ties to Konica, but Konika continued to agressively do R&D using Agfa and Kodak technology both. Their final products were a color negative film and paper similar to Agfa and a color reversal film similar to Kodachrome. I have samples of all of these and process chemistry (now badly expired).
Agfa color paper was only produced for a neg-pos system, and used emulsions similar to Brovira paper but with other addenda. The yellow was on top and the coating had a CLS (yellow) filter layer under it. The process and emulsions/coupler chemistry was far different than that used after the war.
Ansco produced only a reversal paper (Printon) at first, and did not produced the neg-pos paper until the early 60s. We were given one of the first demonstrations of it when I was at Cape Canaveral. It was given by Mr. Walt Wall of Ansco. I still have the pictures he gave me printed on Ansco color paper.
PE
The History channel, and other cable channels have for several years now had programs on WW2 with color footage of Hitler and other German wartime scenes. I am assuming this is Agfa film. It is surprising to me that the color has held up well, or did they do extensive restoration on the footage?
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