Questions about Xray Dupe film

[jp498]

Peter, thanks for the suggestions of hc110, but I've been experimenting with what I've got on hand for chemicals, so hc110 would be an added variable. I'll keep the post in mind if I order chemicals in the near future, but I don't order chemicals that often.

 

[jp498]

hc110 is on order. I can't resist more variables. It's going to be a couple weeks since I'm getting behind in silver printing and I've got figure it's 10 days for shipping from freestyle.

 

[holmburgers]

How's the X-ray film going these days?

 

[jp498]

I've made some negatives developed in dektol with it. I made some 8" negatives from 6x6cm originals for vandyke printing. Worked fine. I've got some more xray dupe negatives waiting for me to coat more paper for cyanotype and van dyke. the duplicating film is safelight safe, so it's easy to work with. One side is lighter than the other for determining the emulsion side.

 

[holmburgers]

That's great. I'm thinking about using it for enlarged negatives under the enlarger. Any idea if its scale is good for carbon?

I'm hoping to get a sampling from CXS soon; and man it's cheap!

 

[jeffreyg]

Check my thread on page 2 of this topic for some details of x-ray duplicating film. The dental version (Kodak) is still available but not exactly cheap but excellent for pt/pd so I would expect it could work for other alternative processes. I use it with Kodak GBX chemistry - developer -- water stop -- fix. The chemistry (both) is diluted 1:3 and keeps once mixed for a month. The chemistry is not particularly expensive. If there are problems locating it, your dentist should be able to help. It is available from the larger dental supplies but they may not sell it to non dentists according to some state laws?

It might also be packaged as something else by Kodak. The film has v^v^v for identification. I would use a red safelight. My experience with it has been excellent.

http://www.jeffreyglasser.com/

 

[holmburgers]

Thanks Jeffrey, I appreciate the info. How does the duplicating film compare to normal x-ray film? I'm wondering if I can use one or the other, depending on whether I'm coming from a negative or a positive (or depending on what I need!) Having both films available to create suitable negs for use in the same process would be an amazing convenience, that is, without having to tweak them too much to act similarly (create similar density and contrast).

There's a ton to choose from at CXSonline.com:

CXS Ortho Green Film by Agfa
CXS 14"x36" Film by Agfa (many types within this category)
CXS Duplicating film by Agfa

Fuji Super RX Blue FUll Speed Film
Fuji Super HRT Green Film
Fuji RX-U Universal Blue Half Speed Film

Kodak Full Speed Blue Film
Kodak Half Speed Blue Film
Kodak Ortho Green Film
CXS Duplicating Film by Kodak
Kodak Green Latitude Film

I'm not sure where to begin.

 

[gmikol]

Keep in mind that some X-Ray films have emulsions on both sides...though the emulsion is pretty opaque, with sensitizing dyes and whatnot, it could result in a loss of sharpness if used for duping. Dupe film only has emulsion on one side, so no risk there. If you're interested in starting from a positive (to make a negative), you'll need to find a single-sided emulsion film.

Finding a xray negative film and an xray dupe film that behave the same sensitometrically may be like trying to find the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow.

--Greg

 

[holmburgers]

Ughhh. and I've never been fond of Leprechauns...

From that list, any idea which non-dupe films don't have 2-sided emulsions? I guess I can always contact them as well and ask. The price of these films though.... my kind of prices.

Ever heard the Kink's song 'Low Budget'?

 

[jeffreyg]

I haven't tried x-ray films. The duplicating film I use is Kodak XOmat-2 which I have been using in my dental practice for a very long time. I use the 8x10 @$2/sheet, the emulsion is only on one side and it is a reversal film so a negative yields a negative of excellent quality. Several years ago I used some Agfa x-ray duplicating film to do some 11x14 pt/pd prints. It was also quite good but I'm not sure it is still made in that size. There may be others that I am not aware of. I'm not much into experimenting so when something works well, I tend to stick with it. The GBX chemistry comes as a twin pack (dev & fix) @ $15.50 and makes a gallon of each which will keep for one month once mixed and possibly longer.

I enlarge from both 2 1/4 and 4x5 generally to 7x7 or 9x7 for my pt/pd/au prints. My enlarger has an Aristo VCL 4500 lamp so exposures are long. The negative in the neg carrier should be place emulsion side up since it is a reversal film. This system has worked well for me.

A few years ago I enlarged negatives and printed a limited edition of four images x 12 numbered prints and an artist's proof and printer's proof in hand-coated pt/pd/au for a photographer named Mario Algaze whose work is widely collected. He is a superb printed and it was an extremely demanding experience as he wanted each one to be identical.

http://www.jeffreyglasser.com/

 

[holmburgers]

I just looked at Mario's work and it is really great. Hey, if it's good enough for him (and you), then there's hope!

Jeffrey, being a dentist, do you have any idea which of those X-ray films might not be double emulsions? If not, I guess it's time to fake a heart attack and ask a cardiologist... haha.

Meanwhile, I better just shoot CXS an email.

 

[holmburgers]

Thank you for your interest in CXS; All of our film is double sided film, we
do not carry mammography or any other single sided film on our site.

CXS - Customer Service

 

[jeffreyg]

I am not familiar with the medical films. Other sizes of the Kodak dental duplicating film includes a panoramic format. They are coated on one side. One thing to add is that since it is a reversal film if you use an easel and print with a border you need very little in the way of masking to get clean borders. If you want to show brush strokes you would have to copy with no border or trim the film. The less exposure the darker the area on the film. Conversely, if you need a darker print the dup film needs more exposure.

 

[totalamateur]

Try zzmedical - they have Fuji Dup film cheap in 24 x 30 - $71 for 100 sheets -

I will be using this to enlarge MF negs (and some 4x5's) up to 8x10 and larger for carbon printing - does the blue base absorb UV light? Has anyone used the blue tinted base for carbon, platinum, or cyanotype?

Also, the above referenced website has "fast speed" emulsions and single sided emulsions which may be of interest to some. Unfirtunately, I think the minimum order for single sided mammography film is 500 sheets.

 

[holmburgers]

The blue base shouldn't pose any difficulties since it's on the UV end of the spectrum. JeffreyG uses dupe film for palladium/platinum, but I don't know if it has a blue base exactly. I'm planning to use it for UV exposures too so I hope so.

Thanks for the tip on zzmedical.com

 

[totalamateur]

CRAP!!

I just got my 24x30 Fuji Dup film from zzmedical which I SPECIFICALLY asked if it was 24 x30 INCHES and noticed two things which immediately irritated the crap out of me:

1. It's 24x30 centimeters.
2. it came with a note saying they were discontinuing it.

SONOFA....

so there are other sources of duplicating film (including ultrafine, the only supplied of 20x24 INCH dup film) but I'm rather worried that its all rebadged fuji, which would suck.

 

[Vaughn]

That sucks...I guess if the price is too good to be true, then it usually isn't.

BTW...I have no problem with the blue base for carbons, cyanotypes and pt/pd

 

[totalamateur]

So true, you'd think by now I'd have learned that lesson. No one sells for $1 what everyone else sells for $3.

Oh, well. 24cm by 30cm is certainly large enough for me to melt some jello and hopefull ycome up with a few wall hangers.

 

[holmburgers]

You could get some normal x-ray film (mammography is not double sided) and reversal process it, or create an interpositive. Have you been looking on eBay?

Damn, dratz about the metric/standard... that's unacceptable. Try http://www.cxsonline.com/

 

[totalamateur]

I saw CSX, zzmedical was a hair cheaper and got good reviews online - and I spoke to them today to suggest they put the units of measure in their descriptions. Also, it turns out FUJI isn't discontinuing all duplicating film, just the 24x30 cm size.

 

[holmburgers]

That's good it's not discontinued. It seems that X-ray film is a victim of the digital revolution as well, but hopefully implementation will be slow, particularly in smaller offices or other parts of the world.

I hope no one minds that I'm talking about x-ray film and not dupe film, but they're close enough and it's towards the same end basically...

Here's a short thread about x-ray film on photo.net http://photo.net/large-format-photography-forum/0036bl?start=0

Jim Galli had this to say, "Any time I mix up the chems for radiography film at work I always have some fun first enlarging 4X5's onto the 14X17 Type R films. They act more like paper than film. They work about as well developed in Dektol. In fact the other day we had to do some unplanned work with Radiographs and since I had thrown all of the developers away I had to come up with something quick. So I brought some Sodium Hydroxide from home to jazz up the Dektol with and we had our radiographs just fine. It's fun to make great big positives of your pics. They have a blue cast and when viewed on a translucent table with 3200k lamps they look neutral. Tonality just as nice as paper. I never tried as daylight taking film though. They should act just like a paper negative would. ASA about 1.5 - 3..... I added about 1 1/2 tablespoons of NaOH to a gallon of Dektol to raise the PH/ increase developer activity because I knew from my ES&H sheets that Kodak Industrex used NaOH as the main caustic instead of the usual Sodium Carbonate. I never measured PH. The Xray film will develop just as well in normal Dektol though. We tried that too. Takes a bit longer. Let me know how you make out. You can't do it wrong, the stuff is bulletproof."