Questions about split fixing and hardener

[okto]

I recently switched to split/2-bath fixing for my film development so I can stretch each batch as long as I can.
Two questions:
Will having the hardener in the first fix prevent the second fix from being effective?
If so, and I use a separate hardener bath, should I wash before hardening (to clear as much fix as possible)?

Oh, I guess three questions: am I crazy?

 

[removed account4]

hi okto

modern films don't really require hardener. it makes it harder ( pardon the pun ) to wash the emulsion free of chemistry.
i only started to use hardener in my fix, after 31 years, this year, because i am using liquid emulsion on glass,
and it frills ( puckers, lifts and may peel off / tear ) if you don't use a hardening fixer.
i still never use it for film or paper ... and don't plan on every using it on anything but coated glass plates.

 

[tkamiya]

I've only heard this hardener-makes-washing-difficult argument on paper, not film. Even then, photographers have been using Kodak Professional Fixer (the powder kind) that contains hardener for decades.

I do know, if you intend to tone, hardener impacts toner's ability to change color.

Also, when you use 2-bath method, length of fixing total is not any longer than one bath method. I wouldn't think it'll make that much difference. I guess a better question will be, do you use a kind of film that require hardening treatment? Most modern emulsions are hard enough that something like that isn't even necessary.

 

[Mainecoonmaniac]

The rule I use for fixing film is double the time for it to clear. For example, if it takes 2 minutes for your film to clear, total fix time is 4 minutes. Do any other APUGers use that rule?

 

[Ian Grant]

You need to wash films longer if a hardening fixer's been used than unhardened.

Ilford state that using hardener is no longr recommended except for some exceptional circumstances, processing over 30°C, using roller transport machines, when fast drying is needed (usually higher heat) ect.

Ian

 

[Rick A]

Trying to save fixer is a bit of false economy. Switch to a non-hardening fix and save water.

 

[Ian Grant]

Trying to save fixer is a bit of false economy. Switch to a non-hardening fix and save water.

With 2 bath fixing you get better economy, more effective fixing but in reality the only true benefits are with fibre based papers.

Ian