Questions about old stuff I just got (enlarger, cibachrime paper, etc)

StoneNYC · Apr 16, 2013

So I got an enlarger finally!!!

Sadly it looks like it only does 6x6 and I only shoot 6x7 but it's a start...

I got a bunch of free stuff and I have questions..

1. First, is this enlarger any good? It has plastic bellows and a 50mm beslar and 75mm E-Lucky lens, it's called a Lentar L266D and has a 35mm and 6x6 film holder insert.

2. Is a 6x7 available or will that not fit the bellows?

3. Next the most exciting disappointment (I say that as its probably no good), a full, unused pack of 8x10 "Cibachrime Print Material Type A" which I assume is paper and I recall for chrome prints which they don't make anymore right? ... It's been sitting in the persons basement for something like 20 years she says and was her fathers, as well as the manual, and some measure cups which you can see next to the enlarger in the previous picture.

4. Next is some learning books, most notable is the book I think everyone tells me to read, ansel Adams - the negative, but it also says "basic photo 2" so is this only PART of the "The Negative" and not the whole book?

5. Next is what I think is B&W paper... Again, this can't possibly be good right?

6. Next, is this hypo-check any good? And what's "opaque black" for?

7. Next, is this for cutting? What is it?

8. And also what's this??

9. And I think finally, are either of these lights useful and applicable to modern paper or is this stuff for old orthochromatic film?

10. Oh one more... What is this thing? The lady said she thought it might be for paper but it looks like it could be for sheet film also?

I think that's it for questions for now.

Thanks!!

~Stone

Mamiya: 7 II, RZ67 Pro II / Canon: 1V, AE-1, 5DmkII / Kodak: No 1 Pocket Autographic, No 1A Pocket Autographic | Sent w/ iPhone using Tapatalk

noacronym · Apr 16, 2013

Lord... I haven't seen that picture of that woman on the Cibachrome package in 30 years. Nice little haul for the price. To answer your question about the enlarger--just make tests for light dropoff at the corners.

Nige · Apr 16, 2013

1. Is it good, probably not the greatest, but it will work.
3. Yes, prints from slides. It might be ok, but you need the chemicals to go with it.
5. Probably no good since it's RC.
7. is an easel (holds paper under enlarger)
8. is a differnt easel, that lets you make specific size prints.
10. Probably a print drum used for the cibachromes.

Rick A · Apr 16, 2013

You might be able to file out the carrier for the enlarger to 6x7, but the condensors may not cover. the green safe light is for color printing. The paper may still be ok, you need to test by developing an unexposed strip then fix. If any other shade than base white, it's bad. You have an adjustable arm easel, good enough to start.

StoneNYC · Apr 16, 2013

Ok thanks guys, that was fast, still looking for 4,6, and how do I "work" 10.

Lol.

~Stone

Mamiya: 7 II, RZ67 Pro II / Canon: 1V, AE-1, 5DmkII / Kodak: No 1 Pocket Autographic, No 1A Pocket Autographic | Sent w/ iPhone using Tapatalk

noacronym · Apr 16, 2013

Opaque black for retouching things with extra fine brushes, dilute as needed to blend shades. Actually was more often used in the stripping dept of camera/offset print shops.

Kevin Caulfield · Apr 16, 2013

4. "The Negative" is book number 2 in a series of three, "The Camera", "The Negative" and "The Print".

Kevin Caulfield · Apr 16, 2013

10. You take off one end and place your exposed paper inside, emulsion side facing inwards, in safelight conditions. There should be some kind of spout on one end where you can pour in the chemicals. You will need to either use a motorised roller, or just roll it manually on a flat floor.

noacronym · Apr 16, 2013

Those Cibachrome prints were the shiniest gloss you'll ever see. A fly landing on it would skid and break his neck.

StoneNYC · Apr 16, 2013

Kevin Caulfield said:
10. You take off one end and place your exposed paper inside, emulsion side facing inwards, in safelight conditions. There should be some kind of spout on one end where you can pour in the chemicals. You will need to either use a motorised roller, or just roll it manually on a flat floor.

Oh I see. Why is this better than tray developing?

~Stone

Mamiya: 7 II, RZ67 Pro II / Canon: 1V, AE-1, 5DmkII / Kodak: No 1 Pocket Autographic, No 1A Pocket Autographic | Sent w/ iPhone using Tapatalk

StoneNYC · Apr 16, 2013

Kevin Caulfield said:
4. "The Negative" is book number 2 in a series of three, "The Camera", "The Negative" and "The Print".

OH!! Gotcha, sweet then I have the right book, though the print book would probably be pretty helpful haha

~Stone

Mamiya: 7 II, RZ67 Pro II / Canon: 1V, AE-1, 5DmkII / Kodak: No 1 Pocket Autographic, No 1A Pocket Autographic | Sent w/ iPhone using Tapatalk

AgX · Apr 16, 2013

"The Negative" is book number 2 in a series of three, "The Camera", "The Negative" and "The Print".

I don't know why, but about reading that immediately "The Good, the Bad and the Ugly" came to my mind.

Now I can't get this out of my head again...

Katie · Apr 16, 2013

AgX said:
I don't know why, but about reading that immediately "The Good, the Bad and the Ugly" came to my mind.

Now I can't get this out of my head again...

Or The Lion, The Witch and The Wardrobe.

MattKing · Apr 16, 2013

The green light is a safelight. You can get different filters for it, including an amber "OC" filter that will work with most black and white papers. I might have an extra filter or two.

The red bulb beside it may very well be a usable safelight for black and white.

Opaque black is what you might use to spot out clear spots on a lithographer's negative for printing.

The Minor White book is quite interesting, and it and Minor White's other writing may be responsible for all those who wrongly (IMHO) use "previsualize" when "visualize" is more appropriate. You may find it a lot easier to follow then Ansel Adams' writing on the Zone System.

The Kodachromide paper is a fixed contrast paper, and might be okay.

The Polycontrast paper might also be okay.

Both would be fun to try.

And the enlarger is very basic, but may very well be functional. The lenses are very basic though.

Although it was 35mm only, my first enlarger was quite similar to yours, and I got good service from it.

StoneNYC · Apr 16, 2013

MattKing said:
The green light is a safelight. You can get different filters for it, including an amber "OC" filter that will work with most black and white papers. I might have an extra filter or two.

The red bulb beside it may very well be a usable safelight for black and white.

Opaque black is what you might use to spot out clear spots on a lithographer's negative for printing.

The Minor White book is quite interesting, and it and Minor White's other writing may be responsible for all those who wrongly (IMHO) use "previsualize" when "visualize" is more appropriate. You may find it a lot easier to follow then Ansel Adams' writing on the Zone System.

The Kodachromide paper is a fixed contrast paper, and might be okay.

The Polycontrast paper might also be okay.

Both would be fun to try.

And the enlarger is very basic, but may very well be functional. The lenses are very basic though.

Although it was 35mm only, my first enlarger was quite similar to yours, and I got good service from it.

Does very basic mean poor quality with blurry images? Lol

And yea I sort if already use my eye to spot the right place to meter which seems to match the exposure info in both books, though the ansel book talks of orthochromatic films

What does "OC" mean?

So I can chuck the opaque black?

Yes, I thought the PRE was a little strange :/ lol

I wonder if I should start with them? Or should I start with something new and then play with them when I actually know what I'm doing?

~Stone

Mamiya: 7 II, RZ67 Pro II / Canon: 1V, AE-1, 5DmkII / Kodak: No 1 Pocket Autographic, No 1A Pocket Autographic | Sent w/ iPhone using Tapatalk

MattKing · Apr 17, 2013

Basic means not fancy. If you put the enlarger together and it is sturdy and straight and each part that is supposed to be level and parallel to the other parts is level and parallel, and if the light shines evenly where it is supposed to shine, and if it is easy to adjust the height and the focus and the height and the focus stay where you set them, then the enlarger is capable of good prints.

And as for the lenses, assuming they haven't be damaged, and that they are clean, they will most likely do fine with reasonably sized enlargements. 8 x 10 should be fine, and 11 x 14 may be as well.

OC refers to the Kodak safelight codes - OC is the most useful. You will see reference to other codes as well, like OA. Here is a reference: http://www.kodak.com/global/en/professional/support/techPubs/ti0845/ti0845.pdf

If you have somebody to show you the ropes, you can probably experiment with the paper. Otherwise, I would recommend starting with a fairly large package of 5x7 paper.

And as for the Kodak Opaque? It can be used for retouching negatives, so I would suggest you keep it.

Negative retouching is excellent for building the capacity for quiet patience.

StoneNYC · Apr 17, 2013

MattKing said:
Basic means not fancy. If you put the enlarger together and it is sturdy and straight and each part that is supposed to be level and parallel to the other parts is level and parallel, and if the light shines evenly where it is supposed to shine, and if it is easy to adjust the height and the focus and the height and the focus stay where you set them, then the enlarger is capable of good prints.

And as for the lenses, assuming they haven't be damaged, and that they are clean, they will most likely do fine with reasonably sized enlargements. 8 x 10 should be fine, and 11 x 14 may be as well.

OC refers to the Kodak safelight codes - OC is the most useful. You will see reference to other codes as well, like OA. Here is a reference: http://www.kodak.com/global/en/professional/support/techPubs/ti0845/ti0845.pdf

If you have somebody to show you the ropes, you can probably experiment with the paper. Otherwise, I would recommend starting with a fairly large package of 5x7 paper.

And as for the Kodak Opaque? It can be used for retouching negatives, so I would suggest you keep it.

Negative retouching is excellent for building the capacity for quiet patience.

Ok, thanks, this should be interesting... I may start with a few contact prints first just to get an idea of the paper development process.

Also, did I ask? Why would I use the paper developer tank instead of developing trays?

~Stone

Mamiya: 7 II, RZ67 Pro II / Canon: 1V, AE-1, 5DmkII / Kodak: No 1 Pocket Autographic, No 1A Pocket Autographic | Sent w/ iPhone using Tapatalk

MattKing · Apr 17, 2013

StoneNYC said:
Ok, thanks, this should be interesting... I may start with a few contact prints first just to get an idea of the paper development process.

Also, did I ask? Why would I use the paper developer tank instead of developing trays?

~Stone

Mamiya: 7 II, RZ67 Pro II / Canon: 1V, AE-1, 5DmkII / Kodak: No 1 Pocket Autographic, No 1A Pocket Autographic | Sent w/ iPhone using Tapatalk

Two reasons:

1) If you print colour, you need to work in total darkness. The developing tube is light tight, but permits you to fill and empty the chemicals without opening it. This allows you to load the paper in the dark, and then do the developing with the lights on; and
2) It is easier to do a couple of quick prints with the tube, because it isn't necessary to set up and take down as much stuff. It is a bit of a pain though to do much more than a print or two, because you need to thoroughly rinse and dry the tube before each print. I solve that problem (when I am using the tubes) by having a number of them, plus space to air dry them between rounds.

If you use the tubes, you lose the chance to watch the print appearing in front of you. It isn't quite as magical as tray development.

Jerevan · Apr 17, 2013

Something about that enlarger reminds me a lot about the small Fujimoto we had in our shared darkroom a few years back. I would not be surprised if it wasn't a re-branded thing. If it is a re-brand, then the Fujimoto G70 neg holders fit this one. There is some sort of connection to the chinese-made "Lucky" enlargers (I think they might have taken over the production) but I can't remember exactly what, before coffee-time in the morning.

StoneNYC · Apr 17, 2013

Jerevan said:
Something about that enlarger reminds me a lot about the small Fujimoto we had in our shared darkroom a few years back. I would not be surprised if it wasn't a re-branded thing. If it is a re-brand, then the Fujimoto G70 neg holders fit this one. There is some sort of connection to the chinese-made "Lucky" enlargers (I think they might have taken over the production) but I can't remember exactly what, before coffee-time in the morning.

Ok I'll take a pic of them, but are you saying you have a 6x7?

~Stone

Mamiya: 7 II, RZ67 Pro II / Canon: 1V, AE-1, 5DmkII / Kodak: No 1 Pocket Autographic, No 1A Pocket Autographic | Sent w/ iPhone using Tapatalk

lightwisps · Apr 17, 2013

Stone, Sorry, but I think the old Cibachrome is worthless. Ilfochrome, its replacement is very different including the chemistry. Don

polyglot · Apr 17, 2013

MattKing said:
1) If you print colour, you need to work in total darkness. The developing tube is light tight, but permits you to fill and empty the chemicals without opening it. This allows you to load the paper in the dark, and then do the developing with the lights on; and

Yep. I do all my printing (including RA4) in (Jobo) drums. RA4 developer is pretty stinky and people tend to be come badly sensitised to it; drum processing avoids all that because there's none out in an open tray. Not to mention you don't need to try getting a print into and between trays while blind. And a drum takes up MUCH less darkroom space than a row of trays, especially when you do larger prints: think about how big a row of three 20x24 trays is going to be and that doesn't even include washing!

Google for "unicolor roller" as that's what you have. You can get a motorised base to run it on and not wear your arms out.

2) It is easier to do a couple of quick prints with the tube, because it isn't necessary to set up and take down as much stuff. It is a bit of a pain though to do much more than a print or two, because you need to thoroughly rinse and dry the tube before each print. I solve that problem (when I am using the tubes) by having a number of them, plus space to air dry them between rounds.

Nope. Tube can be wet when you put the next piece of paper in there, just give the paper a 20s pre-wet so that it's ALL wet, not just the bits that got dripped on. Keep in mind also that tube processing will oxidise developer so it will not last very long, but you need very little compared to trays. I use 100mL at a time of Multigrade 1+10 (I think 60mL is enough for some 8x10 drums) and run it through the tube 3 or 4 times before discarding. Even if you use 1L at a time, it'll still only last maybe 10 processes before it dies because it's not the paper that's exhausting it.

Your enlarger really is only good for 6x6 (but it will make perfectly good 8x8", maybe 12x12" B&W prints with that 4-element lens); neither the lens nor the condensers will cover 6x7 properly. Good 6x7 enlargers are pretty easy to find though, usually for $0 to $50, maybe $50 to $100 with a good 6-element lens (Componon-S, Rodagon, EL-Nikkor); you want 80mm for 6x7. You will want a dichroic (colour) diffusion enlarger if you ever want to print in colour, easily recognisable by the presence of cyan/magenta/yellow knobs. And they're (IMHO) easier to use for B&W printing than a condenser enlarger with separate contrast filters.

My FAQ has a printing howto that will probably answer a bunch of your next questions, or better yet, get a copy of Way Beyond Monochrome. More modern than The Negative, plus it covers the stuff in The Print too.

richard ide · Apr 17, 2013

Keep the black negative opaque. When you have the money buy a Winsor Newton series 7 sable watercolour brush size 00 from an art store. Another brand would work but these are the best and well worth the money; about $14. When you have clear spots on a negative or scratches, Use the opaque to cover the spot. A white spot on a print is easier to disguise with Spotone than a black one. The brush will also be the best for print spotting. Use it with respect and care and it will last you many years.

tony lockerbie · Apr 17, 2013

Not better than tray developing, just uses a lot less (expensive) chemicals and is easier to control the temperature with a water bath for colour processes. Ditch the Cibachrome as the chems are no longer available and the paper will be dead anyway, ditto the B&W paper.
Even if you file out the neg carrier, the condenser won't have enough coverage for 6x7. You will need a 6x7 enlarger or buy a Rollei
The enlarger should work ok, and the 50mm will be passable, but the 75 will most likely be cr#p.
Don't be put off though, as darkroom work is very addictive, you just need three trays and if you have a 35mm camera try that out with the enlarger...or shoot some 6x7's that can be cropped to 6x6.

StoneNYC · Apr 17, 2013

richard ide said:
Keep the black negative opaque. When you have the money buy a Winsor Newton series 7 sable watercolour brush size 00 from an art store. Another brand would work but these are the best and well worth the money; about $14. When you have clear spots on a negative or scratches, Use the opaque to cover the spot. A white spot on a print is easier to disguise with Spotone than a black one. The brush will also be the best for print spotting. Use it with respect and care and it will last you many years.

OH!!!! Somehow I missed the idea that you could use it on the print, I was thinking negative only and I don't shoot LF yet and no way I'm spotting small format negs if I can help it haha

Also Matt somehow I missed your comment above, thanks totally makes sense now.

Also I do have a pack of unicolor filters which include all the colors for color printing as the previous owner was printing chromes.

Hmm Cibichrome uses different chemistry than ilfochrome?

Is the old stuff in existence in any form? Can I use the paper for ANYTHING?

~Stone

Mamiya: 7 II, RZ67 Pro II / Canon: 1V, AE-1, 5DmkII / Kodak: No 1 Pocket Autographic, No 1A Pocket Autographic | Sent w/ iPhone using Tapatalk

Questions about old stuff I just got (enlarger, cibachrime paper, etc)

StoneNYC

noacronym

Nige

Rick A

StoneNYC

noacronym

Kevin Caulfield

Kevin Caulfield

noacronym

StoneNYC

StoneNYC

AgX

Katie

MattKing

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StoneNYC

MattKing

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StoneNYC

MattKing

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Jerevan

StoneNYC

lightwisps

polyglot

richard ide

tony lockerbie

StoneNYC

Questions about old stuff I just got (enlarger, cibachrime paper, etc)

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