Question On Developing Times & Agitation Methods

Bill Burk said:

My idea of a perfect Martini is that it must be stirred for the initial 45 seconds and then let it stand for 7 minutes. This allows the fresh cracked ice to bring the temperature down to just above the freezing point, adding the right amount of water and leaving "shards of broken glass" floating on top.

My theory is Ian Fleming knew that James Bond wasn't going to wait around for 7 minutes for anything.

But I'm with you... the perfect Martini is stirred, not shaken.

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You are poisoning the Martini with ice. Keep the Gin in the freezer so that it is cold enough not to need ice, and stir. Ian Flemming ruined Martini's by using vodka and shaking with ice.

Thomas Bertilsson said:

...but often the highlights need a boost to print with 'authority' as I like to call it.

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Thanks Thomas for bringing a real answer to the thread... with authority! I have a similar phrase when printing... I like to print my highlights "a little hot" because I know they will dry down...

Kyle M. said:

I like the negatives I get, they scan well (yes I said the horrid s word)

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Bill Burk said:

Thanks Thomas for bringing a real answer to the thread... with authority! I have a similar phrase when printing... I like to print my highlights "a little hot" because I know they will dry down...

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It's all a system, and while there is a sort of standard process as suggested by experts and film/paper/chemistry manufacturing companies, it does one good to venture out and look beyond the obvious sometimes.
There are references to reduced agitation methods in old photographic literature, by old masters who used agitation as a technique to get what they wanted out of their negatives. It's no more strange than diluting the developer or altering the temperature or developing time, but it gives a DIFFERENT end result, and that's the point. When we slow down agitation, the toe of the curve lifts, the mid-tone portion gets slightly steeper, and the highlights get slight compensation. All of those things are good in mid-high to high contrast situations, especially in portraiture where getting skin tones right makes such a big difference.

Doc W said:

Kyle, the consensus seems to be pretty much what you are saying, i.e., find a method and be consistent.

I am a little surprised that you don't reduce the time for rotary processing. Are you saying that you use the same time for rotary processing with sheet film that you do for the same film (roll) in an inversion tank?

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The only sheet films that I've rotary processed so far have been 4x5 HP5+ and Tmax 100. I started out by reducing the times and was getting really low contrast. I bumped them back up to the massive dev times for those films and my developer combo and am happy with the results. I haven't rotary processed any roll film because I never have more than 1 roll at a time so I just use the inversion method.

Even with good and sufficient agitation, I expect and find variations in the development of my negatives when comparing beginning of roll to end of roll.

I also expect and find variations in development between the center of a strip of film and nearer the edges even though there aren't visible surge marks.

These differences are measurable with a densitometer, but I am happy to say that they don't ruin prints.

If you'd like I can show some numbers.

But the important thing I want to say is that agitation is important, difficult to get perfect, but not too hard to get just right.

I work out experimentally 60 sec and 30 requires 10% + compensation for 60 sec.

Pick one or two films and one developer and stick with it. Otherwise grief in printing.

Kyle M. said:

The only sheet films that I've rotary processed so far have been 4x5 HP5+ and Tmax 100. I started out by reducing the times and was getting really low contrast. I bumped them back up to the massive dev times for those films and my developer combo and am happy with the results. I haven't rotary processed any roll film because I never have more than 1 roll at a time so I just use the inversion method.

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... but are you saying that the development time for HP5 4x5 in a rotary processor is the same as the time for HP5 120 in an inversion tank?

Doc W said:

... but are you saying that the development time for HP5 4x5 in a rotary processor is the same as the time for HP5 120 in an inversion tank?

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I use 11 minutes with HC-110 dilution H (1+63) for both and am perfectly happy with the results.