Question about specific bellows material for Isolette

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BHuij

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TL;DR: Does the black vinyl/plastic material that photo paper comes in work as the primary light-tight layer in a bellows? Has anyone tried it and had definitive success or failure?

Full post:

I'm restoring another Isolette, and the bellows of course need to be replaced.

After a bunch of reading, I think I just want to try making my own. I'm handy with DIY stuff and this seems like a fun way to personalize my camera as well. There are also really good resources to get measurements and sizing exactly right. So I'm fully aware that there are excellent ptions for buying bellows from people who have been doing it a lot longer than me, and I have decided against going that route.

That said, after what looks like well over a decade of forum posts and debates online, there still appears to be no consensus on what combination of materials yields a good, thin, reasonably inexpensive, functional, and long-wearing bellows. I would consider the Isolette bellows a lot easier than something like a 4x5 since I don't have to worry about various focal lengths or bellows sag. The most intriguing material I've seen mentioned is the black vinyl or plastic material that comes in boxes of photo paper, to contain the paper itself. By definition it is light tight, and seems very robust without being terribly thick or difficult to work with.

I was thinking of doing something like a super thin matte black fabric inner liner, with paper ribs sandwiched between that inner lining and the black plastic, with a more interesting looking thin fabric on the outside (maybe a colored nylon ripstop or similar), with the outside being primarily for decoration.

Has anyone actually tried this material? I've seen it mentioned a bunch of times, but there are no firsthand accounts to be found anywhere.
 

AgX

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That material is Polyethylene.

It basically got several issues:
-) decomposes under UV light (should be hampered by being dyed black.
-) might break at points of being doubled folded crosswise
-) hard to cement (for the average tinkerer only doublesided tape or melting glue)
-) might be transmissive to IR
 

Ian Grant

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Two bits of fabric, the card ribs, and the plastic will be far too thick, add three layers of gue as well. You wouldn't be able to close the camera :D

There's some very thin light proof material available but you'd have to buy far more than you actually need.

Ian
 

Ian Grant

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I have 3 or 4 different materials I use for making bellows. One I make myself for s, TP Ruby reflex etc. I used this for the first set of bellows I made, it's a bit too thick double with the ribs though for anything smaller than a 7x5 camera. This fabric is quite stable dimensionally (doesn't stretch).

Then I have a large quantity of Japanese shutter curtain material but this is expensive for bellows use, it's for cloth focal plane shutters used is 35mm & 120mm cameras - it's not dimensionally stable in a longer length or width.

Thinnest, most expensive, and only available in quite a large minimum size is from ThlorLabs. However much cheaper is a PVC coated Nylon fabric it's only a touch thicker but still thin enough, it's not 100% light proof as a single layer but I know that not all materials used for bellows are, I had Camera now Custom Bellows make me some bag bellows 30+ years ago :D I'll have to check where I bought it, it should be available in the US as everything is International these days.

Ian
 

bernard_L

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I've come across the fabric used for inner lining of old-fashioned purses, etc; looks like nylon (not sure) with one side coated with a rubbery material. Maybe that's what Ian Grant refers to as "PVC coated Nylon fabric". I suggest that you try to locate a shop in the business of upholstery repairs (in Utah?) pay them a visit, and hope you meet a cooperative person.
 
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BHuij

BHuij

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I did some searching online for PVC coated Nylon. I don't think I actually found PVC coated nylon specifically, but I did find polyurethane coated ripstop that is advertised as lightproof.

https://www.seattlefabrics.com/60-1...Out-Nylon-Ripstop-750-linear-yard_p_1097.html

I am having a hard time finding anything relating to the thickness, but the photo makes it look like a possibility. You guys think this would work as my primary "lightproof" layer?
 

bernard_L

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I did some searching online for PVC coated Nylon. I don't think I actually found PVC coated nylon specifically, but I did find polyurethane coated ripstop that is advertised as lightproof.

https://www.seattlefabrics.com/60-1...Out-Nylon-Ripstop-750-linear-yard_p_1097.html

I am having a hard time finding anything relating to the thickness, but the photo makes it look like a possibility. You guys think this would work as my primary "lightproof" layer?

What I have looks similar to what is shown in the link to Seattle Fabrics. My coated fabric is 229g/m2=6.7oz/sqyd. Seattle Fabrics says 1.9oz/sqft, but that is before coating, so no meaningful comparison is possible. The Seattle Fabric stuff does not look too expensive; why not try? Hint: I never made a bellows so far, but when I do, I'll make a practice dummy with paper first.
Does the black vinyl/plastic material that photo paper comes in work as the primary light-tight layer in a bellows?
Additional to what AgX wrote, It would not work because it's shiny. Once read that a practical joke on apprentice LF photographers was handing them a camera with shiny material inside the bellows, and watch them despair about unexplainable flare.
 

AgX

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PU-coatings of textile can change into mess though. Just think of old camera cases.
 

Ian Grant

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I did some searching online for PVC coated Nylon. I don't think I actually found PVC coated nylon specifically, but I did find polyurethane coated ripstop that is advertised as lightproof.

https://www.seattlefabrics.com/60-1...Out-Nylon-Ripstop-750-linear-yard_p_1097.html

I am having a hard time finding anything relating to the thickness, but the photo makes it look like a possibility. You guys think this would work as my primary "lightproof" layer?

I'm fairly sure I posted the details of the materials on this website sometime ago (3-4 years) but the search facility here isn't showing my posts easily. I've tried looking back on my Paypal account but can't go far enough back.

A Google search for PVC coated Nylon or Polyester fabric is bringing up similar fabrics, something 600g/sq m is 0.47mm thick which is a little too thick. Ideally you need to get a sample first. The Japanese shutter curtain is 0.2mm thick approx and the Thorlabs material 0.12mm (polyurethane coated nylon).

I know several people make bellows from film changing bags.

The material I'm using is similar to the nylon type changing bags I have. It's about £10/$13 for per metre by 1.5 metres wide.

Ian
 

Truzi

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Wasn't there someone who converts old Polaroid 110 cameras to 4x5 who had a video and page showing how to make bellows? He may have suggested material.
 

BlueWind

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I've read that the Kodak 66 bellows is a good replacement for the Isolette's. And it is easy to replace.
I have not tried it myself so confirm this before investing in a faulty Kodak 66..
Regards
Joao
 

StanMac

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I’ve mentioned this in other bellows posts, but Columbia Organ Leather has extremely thin leathers used in pneumatic applications in organs:

https://www.columbiaorgan.com/columbia-leather-home/

Check out their CPL leathers. They seem to be the perfect solution for a bellows outer layer. And when layered with a high thread count nylon should result in thin enough construction to allow for closing the camera. At least that is my plan for making a new Isolette/Speedex bellows (if I can ever get the time!).

Stan
 
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