Question about replenished HC-110

[GraemeMitchell]

In the Kodak tech sheet for HC-110, under replenishment, if I'm reading it correctly, it states to discard the tank after 2 weeks of use. Am I understanding that correctly, and if so; really, does it die off that quickly?

I'd like mix a 4 to 5 gallon tank and keep it going for as long as it's good. Assuming a replenishment rate of 3/4 oz per roll, that'd be more like, oh maybe, 6 months or so before I reached about 1/2 replenisher to 1/2 original.

 

[Stephanie Brim]

I've never, ever used it this way. I just use it one shot. More economical and less of a hassle. Then again, you seem to be doing more film than I do.

What's your normal dilution?

 

[GraemeMitchell]

My normal dilution is either 1:50 or 1:100 for one shot. If I try to season it I'd go to 1:39 though for ease of measurements. As 1 bottle of concentrate of Hc-110 would make a 5 gallon tank, and the replenisher is added at 1:1 as needed for that dilution.

My interest in replenishing is b/c I think I do run enough film to warrant it, but moreover, ease of use w/ 3.5 gallon tanks.

Not to mention developers take on certain nice qualities as they season.

 

[Anon Ymous]

Graeme, HC110 Replenisher was discontinued back in October. Maybe you should switch to another developer like Xtol?

 

[GraemeMitchell]

Leave it to me to start to figure something out that was discontinued.

 

[Thomas Bertilsson]

Graeme, one of the best, and easiest, developers to use as replenished is Xtol. It changes character somewhat as it's replenished; especially the highlights take on a wonderful character. You replenish with fresh Xtol. Many labs used this for their b&w dip&dunk machines. I use it for my small inversion tanks with fantastic results.

The replenishment rate is 70-100ml per 36exp roll (equivalent). Easy peasy.

- Thomas

 

[GraemeMitchell]

Thanks, Thomas, I keep getting that suggested to me. DFCardwell here also praised it, especially w/ TMY-2. But thus far I've found HC-110 to be a much more interesting developer, for how I use it. I'm sure I could get xtol to do cool stuff, and I never did use it replenished, but hc-110 has something to it that I know and dig.

But if HC-110 isn't viable as a replenished dev anymore, than xtol it might be. We'll see. It's not THAT big of a deal, but always tweaking.

 

[Thomas Bertilsson]

The HC-110 developer is indeed different. You're likely to be able to get more intensity in the highlights, and a coarser grain along with quite a bit less shadow detail. Some of that can be brought back by tweaking development with the Xtol, but you're right, they will not look the same, especially since Xtol has so much shadow detail. You can, of course, underexpose your negatives somewhat to get a similar response. And you can gain most of the highlight intensity by agitating more often and develop longer.

Cardwell was the one that turned me onto replenished Xtol, after a venture with Edwal 12. Edwal 12 is another interesting developer that is fantastic replenished, but I have a feeling the grain will be too fine for you if you like HC-110. You might want to check out Edwal 10. You have to mix it yourself, and it looks pretty much just like Edwal 12, but it doesn't have the super fine grain. It's wonderful replenished and gives an S-shaped curve with a bit compressed shadows and highlights. But the highlights are soaringly beautiful with amazing modulation right at the edge of blocking up.

Xtol, to me, is just the best compromise. I can do almost anything with that developer, I can shape how the negative prints by altering my agitation cycles and development time, mostly depending on what I want and what the lighting conditions were. So, sometimes I might not be able to get the very best highlight intensity, or a firmly S-shaped curve (like Edwal 10 and 12), but I can get close, and I just want one single developer to do everything for me.

You could buy a pack of Xtol and try it, of course. It's very economical as replenished.

- Thomas

 

[GraemeMitchell]

Thomas, yep, that's much of what DF told me, and I'm always willing to learn!

Grain is not something I go to HC-110 for. I actually find it to be a bit too grainy at times, given that it's not all that sharp. For grain, sharpness and for the mid-tones there's Rodinal, which is my other developer. But it's the tonality of HC-110 you mentioned that is what interests me. Not a S curve, but I think a rather dramatic up sweeping curve. It's special w/ TX. It emphasizes highlights, but in a gentle way. Here are two examples of TX in HC-110, which maybe could be done w/ anything, but which are done w/ it completely by nature: http://graememitchell.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/studyNY_FW10_03.jpg and http://graememitchell.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/studyNY_FW10_01.jpg

Oh, and a benefit of much of what I shoot is that I don't have to worry about shadows, b/c I can usually just fill them. Or if the lights hard, diffuse it. In general, I often have the luxury to adjust light to my film (to a degree). So I don't necessarily have to think in terms of compromises in that sense.

I would LOVE to have one main developer (+ rodinal, which will always have a place for me).

Anyway, like I said...really not THAT big of a deal, but I a piece of film that works is a good thing.

 

[GraemeMitchell]

Another question, as this is my first time replenishing. Does one usually start replenishing immediately, or do you run film for a while before you begin to? Wondering how that initial seasoning process takes place. And any guesses on what this would roughly be roll per gallon to start w/ if it is the case.

I'm plan to give the process a shot w/ HC-110. Even if the replenisher is discontinued, it seems widely available for now, so might as well enjoy it while it's still float around...

 

[Sparky]

maybe start after the first week or 25 sheets of film - whichever comes first... four gallons is a lot. And so even that would be a miniscule replensihment. The very best thing is to try to regulate your film development to a fixed number per week and set your replenishment by trial and error at first - you'll see a difference in the film. Run a step tablet if at all possible. Where it gets a bit tricky is if your brew starts losing pH value and you have to do things like add base to it (sometimes hard to distinguish between exhaustion vs pH tilt)- some extra buffer like sodium carbonate probably would help - but then again - that's already 'designed' into the dev for long term storage use... a pH testing kit that you can get cheaply at aquarium shops wouldn't hurt - so you can check it from time to time... it's not SOOO different from maintaining an aquarium in certain ways - heh...

 

[GraemeMitchell]

Thanks, Sparky.

I can't really set a specific number for weekly shooting. But I can def get film through it weekly and set a reasonable minimum, even if I buy some cheap expired sheets just to keep it alive and working.

Do you have experience using HC-110 like this?

I'm still a bit confused on how long I can keep the mix going before I have to dump a large portion of it and start anew? Would a month be too risky? The PH monitoring doesn't enthuse me. But I'm willing to figure it out. Are you saying it's completely necessary to monitor this?

Don't ask me why I'm married to trying it w/ this developer. I've just seen really nice things w/ it and am willing to do the leg work.

Yeah, the 4 gallon bit really is overkill for me. But the tanks are 3.5 gallons, so it needs to be that much at least...

 

[Sparky]

Just make sure you have a floating lid to prevent oxidation. I used to work for an ad agency as photographer and lab manager - and we had one or two gallon rubber tanks we'd use D-76 in. They would go easily six months or so before we'd dump them. Another problem is mold/mildew and strange sea creatures evolving from the brew... if it goes cloudy at all - it probably won't really affect the film but a sign of bacterial or mold problems that will probably change the chemical balance (the wee beasties are probably feasting on one or another part of the brew and therefore changing something). But I think HC-110 contains formaldehyde if I'm not mistaken - which should help with long term stability and prevent such things. But no - to answer your question - I've never used HC-110 in that particular way - although I remember using i a LOT around 1984 or so... for the same reason but the opposite approach (you'd buy it as a syrup and dilute an exact amount - so it would keep a LONG time when stored as a syrup). I would use it near maximum dilution - so it would only require a few drops to do a few rolls or sheets of film...

The pH monitoring thing IS a wee bit overkill but quite easy to do methinks. Not sure HOW necessary it is - but I don't think it would hurt at all... but surely would be an interesting consideration if you were wanting to keep your batch going for the long haul... seems I've heard stories of people keeping developer batches going for YEARS... I'm sure it's quite possible - though I'm also sure it would be very full of crud and anti-halation dye etc and be quite unappetizing to work with (not to mention stinky!). If you're going to keep a working dilution tank for any length of time however - you'll have to do your due diligence in terms of keeping it stable. If you expect consistent results from it. That's why so many others prefer doing things like diluting from concentrate, etc - so you have fresh, consistent stuff that gives a repeatable result every time... but there is something really convenient about being able to dev 40 sheets of 4x5 at one go. Eight minutes later you're done!