Question about photographing the Statue of Liberty

[Samuel Hotton]

This old analog photographer is going on a bus trip to New York City on the 19th of May. The tour bus drops us off at Macy's East at 151W 34th street at 12 noon. It picks us up at 6 PM to go home. I wish to go see and photograph the Statue of Liberty. I understand that I need to go to Castle Clinton at Battery park to get tickets and catch the ferry across to the Island. I thought about taking a taxi to Battery park as it is supposedly only about 5 miles and 11 minutes travel time according to Mapquest. As I have no knowledge of the NY subway system, can anyone advise me as to the complexity of the journey between Macy's and Battery Park? Am I better off taking the taxi OR is it a simple and safe trip by subway??
I need some advice on choosing a focal length of lens to allow me to photograph the Statue in full length (earth to crown, 307 feet / 93 meters) in height. As I understand the statue faces the South East. I cannot find how much "standoff" distance in usable foreground I can actually and legally stand on or walk on to make a frontal shot. If I take too long of a focal length lens I will be in the water, nor do I want too short of a focal length because of the extreme angle I must shoot upwards.
All I am trying to accomplish is to produce some nice quality images for myself. I can take either of these systems, 35mm, 120, or 4"x5". It will not be practical for me to carry a larger format system. The widest andgle lens I would want to take with the 35mm camera is 24mm, I calculate It would require 205 feet in standoff distance to image the whole statue. for 120 6cmx6cm format, I can use a 38mm which would require 192 feet. I'd prefer using the 50mm at 255 feet IF I could get that much standoff distance. With the 4"x5" camera with a 75mm lens I would require 182 feet and I would prefer using a 90mm requiring 220 feet. So if my math is correct I need somewhere between 182 feet and 255 feet. Does anyone know if I can get that much standoff distance??? From the aerial photographs I've studied of the site, I'm not so sure I can get 61 to 85 yards of clear ground in front of the statue. What do you think?? I suppose another valid question is, will I be allowed to use a tripod while photographing this monument??
If any of you fine folks have made this shot before, please let me know what focal length lens that has worked for you with which format you used. I can then use either that system or calculate the similar angle of view on a different format.
Last question. Can you suggest a really nice photographic exhibition or museum within 2 or 3 miles of Macy's East on 151 West 34th St.? If I have time after photographing the Statue of Liberty and before the tour bus leaves, I'd like to view some quality analog prints.
I apologise for perhaps asking too much in this thread. This will likely be the only time due to age and health that I shall have the opportunity see and photograph this great monument. I just want to do it the best I know how and not come home saying, "If I had only brought that other lens". My body won't allow me to pack large quantities of equipment like it used to. I've got to get it right or at least close the first time now days.
With great thanks,
Sam Hotton

 

[PBrooks]

Hello, You just need to take the yellow line (NQWR), go all the way downtown to WhiteHall street stop, then walk across the street to where they sell the tickets. This stop is also called South Ferry.
Hope you have Fun

 

[keithwms]

The trip to the statue is easy. You will be able to get directions from just about anywhere and if all else fails, hail a cab.

Two things you should know about the trip to the statue. (1) There is now substantial security to go through, at least there was last time I went, and the security may take you a little extra time if you are carrying film that you may not want to go through the scanners. If you want your film hand-inspected, just tell them it's high speed and they'll do it. (2) If you want to go up the actual statue, you have to get tickets in advance. At least last time I was there, they said you had to get them before coming to the island, I don't know how much in advance but I recall that it was a bit ridiculous. Anyway, even without going up it is a good trip.

When I went to go shoot the statue, I did it with my 50mm and 150 mm lenses on my mamiya 6 (6x6cm format). I found that very convenient.

One thing to see, in terms of photogrpahy exhibits:

http://www.moma.org/collection/depts/photography/index.html

Final tip, just in case you need it! If you go over to the Jersey side of the Hudson, around Weehawken, you'll have a lovely view of the skyline in the evening. And there are some restaurants where you can sit out and enjoy the view. There are ferries back and forth 'til the wee hours. Nowadays when I go to Manhattan I don't even bother to drive over there, I stay in Weehawken and take a ferry in. Oh, that puts you close to b&h as well

Enjoy your stay.

 

[copake_ham]

OMG!

First of all, you will not be able to go from midtown to downtown and then ferry over to the SOL and back to get to downtown to got to midtown in four hours! It's not the distance - it's the timing - particularly the schedule of the ferry from Battery Park to Liberty Island.

Also, it's first come, first served. If you are going to the SOL you will want to be on the earliest ferries over there - beginning around 9AM.

Why are you starting so late in the day from Macy's (BTW: "Macy's East" is simply a corporate name - the store is Macy's)? Where are you going to be earlier?

As to getting downtown from there to the ferry to the SOL - the best thing is to take the 1/9 IRT to the "South Ferry" station. You can get this from Penn Station right near Macy's. But if you can't get downtown earlier - don't bother.

Oh, BTW, we do not use "colors" to describe our subway lines - anyone doing so must be an out of towner!

Send me a PM indicating when you are arriving in NYC and what your itinerary is. Maybe I can help set you up with a reasonable time schedule to make sure you get there and back within your time constraints.

Also send a PM to David Goldberg here (he's one of the moderators) who can better advise you on shooting LF of the SOL on Liberty Island. Simply put, from the base to the top of the torch from the ground in front will be a very severe angle.

Then again, if you have a longer zoom for 35mm than I did some thirty years ago - you can probably get a great "toe to torch" shot from the Staten Island Ferry.

Just look at my "avatar" here and remember - you can do better!

 

[Samuel Hotton]

Thank you gentlemen

I am starting to get some heavy lightning where I am right now in Salisbury, Maryland. I am going to shut this computer down before I light up like a magnesium flash. I will be back on line in the morn.
Thank you all for the great and helpful ideas and wisdom offered.
Good night,
Sam H.

 

[keithwms]

Oh geez I just saw that this is supposed to be done in 4 hours. Indeed that is too quick, George is right, it'll be very tight if not impossible.

 

[Monophoto]

Sam -

Let me reinforce George's comment about timing.

Spousal unit and I are going to NYC on a bus group next Saturday also (we do it twice a year - great fun). However, there is an event scheduled for that afternoon that is probably going to screw up travel on the streets - a dance parade on Broadway between 32nd and 13th streets. In addition, NYC often has street fairs on Saturday that cause streets to be closed down for several blocks. Taxi drivers will know how to get around these obstacles, but the result is that it takes longer to get downtown. The subway would definitely be far faster.

While the bus has advertised a specific terminal address, traffic determines where it actually will be able to stop. And that is especially true since the address is very close to the parade route. Practically, however, it is likely that you will get off the bus within a block of that address.

There are a several subway stations on 34th street. The station at 34th and 7th Avenue (Penn Station) serves the #1 train that will take you directly to Battery Park (South Ferry). Taking into account the walk and the wait at the train, the total transit time from where the bus will stop to Battery Park should be 30 minutes or less.

And by the way - while some subway stations in NYC have the familiar street-level entrance, some are hidden in store fronts. You sometimes have to look for them.

If you take the subway, you have to buy a "metro card". You can buy them from machines, or there are attendants in most stations. If you buy the card from an attendant, be sure to ask for a subway map.

The other concern has to do with getting from Battery Park over to Liberty Island. When we took our kids on that trip many years ago (before they added the security delays), we found that the crowds waiting to take the ferry on a nice Spring Saturday morning were enormous. The ferry ride itself is not all that long, but my recollection is that the wait to get on the ferry was more than an hour.

Then, when we got to Liberty Island, there was another very long (and slow moving) line for the elevator to get to the top of the statue.

And if you add security to that, I have to agree with the others that trying to fit a trip to the statue between noon and 6pm this Saturday is probably impossible. Sorry.

Final point (based on experience with bus excursions into NYC) - you really don't want to get to your planned rendezvous point late. In fact, you really should plan to get there 5-10 minutes before the announced time. Traffic will be horrible, and buses are not allowed to stand to wait for stragglers. In fact, it is possible that the police won't let the bus stop where the driver told you to plan to meet, and it will be necessary to regroup to find a new rendezvous point. If you aren't there, the driver will face a moral dilemma - either abandon you, or go around the block, and the trip around the block in 6pm traffic on Saturday night could take an hour!

A bit of advice - be sure to get the driver's cell phone number. That way, if the bus isn't where you expect it to be, you have a way to contact the driver to find out what is happening.

If your terminal point is at 34th street, alternate activities that you might consider include the Empire State Building (32nd and Fifth), galleries in Chelsea (18th through 25th streets, between 10th and 11th Avenues - sounds like a long way, but its really only about a 15 minute walk). My favorite is the John Stevenson Gallery on 23rd Street just east of 9th Avenue. The International Center for Photography Midtown Gallery at 45th and 7th Avenue is nice (there is an admission charge, and they will separate you from any bags you might be carrying). Or you can just hang out on Broadway for the parade and watch all the weird people.

I'll be the guy with the funny hat.

 

[Samuel Hotton]

Statue of Liberty -"MISSION ABORT"-

WOW, Thanks guys for the great help and wisdom. You have saved me so much anguish by letting me know what I would be facing. I am going to ABORT the idea of photographing the Statue of Liberty on this trip. No point in giving myself a heart attack trying to do this. Thank you, Thank you, Thank you.

As an alternative, I think I will photograph the classic view of the Flatiron building. Another possibility, I don't know if there is a tour provided in the Chrysler building, that might be very interesting. I have already been in the Empire State Building many years ago. I was at the top photographing as a tourist with a Quarter Plate (3 1/4" x 4 1/4") Speed Graphic. Would that not be a sight in todays world? I understand they also have many hours wait, so I won't be going up there again. Times Square is interesting when shot with a panoramic rotating lens camera, but really no place to set up a tripod for a proper steady exposure. Perhaps a Super Wide C Hasse might provide some interesting views in the Square. I have no idea if Chinatown or Greenwich village is a good or bad idea, safe or stupid. And OF COURSE the museums you suggested are perfect.

Any other ideas or tips for classic buildings or views to photograph within a 2 or 3 mile radius of Macy's 34th street will be GLADLY accepted.

I thank all of you for taking the time to help me have a fun trip and I wish all of you with special ladies, a happy and safe Mothers Day. I shall close with a saying that I remember a very old photographer used to say. "May all your shots be Cameos"
With thanks,
Sam Hotton

 

[Monophoto]

Flatiron Building exterior - absolutely! 23rd Street and Broadway.

Chrysler Building - the area is a bit congested. The best view (see the Tom Baril poster) is from an upper floor in another building. Lobby is nice, but getting access on a Saturday could be dicey. Upper floors are boring office space.

Grand Central Terminal - absolutely! I have heard that if you check with the station master's office, you can get a one-day tripod permit valid outside of rush hour.

NYC Public Library, 5th and 42nd. Beautiful building. Don't know about tripod use inside.

Guggenheim Museum - famous circular stairway/gallery.

St. Patrick's Cathedral

Rockefeller Center - but the crowds will be terrible on a Saturday afternoon.

 

[cowanw]

Not to confuse you and timing might still be an issue but we took the staten island ferry and did a drive by shot of the statue. there and back was about an hour.
Bill

 

[Terence]

Views of the Empire State Building can be quite good from 6th Ave in the upper 20's.

The Chrysler Building is tougher, but Bryant Park at 42nd and 6th is okay (you can also see my building going up across the street from the park on the NW corner, soon to be the 2nd tallest in the city), or a view up Lexington Ave in the 20's with a long lens.

The Brooklyn Bridge is always a favorite of mine. The promenade down the middle is accessible from the City Hall area.

 

[David A. Goldfarb]

Who's "David Goldberg"?

Yes, anyone who really wants to get a nice view of the Statue of Liberty just takes the Staten Island Ferry for free and brings a medium longish lens. You're on a boat, so don't bring a camera that you feel you need a tripod for. The 1 train to South Ferry is the easiest way down there (be in the first 5 cars to exit at South Ferry). A cab will usually take longer with traffic.

There are a number of interesting galleries in Chelsea and you won't be too far from ICP. Check photo listings at www.villagevoice.com to plan it out in advance, so you can make the best use of your time in the city.

 

[copake_ham]

Who's "David Goldberg"?

Yes, anyone who really wants to get a nice view of the Statue of Liberty just takes the Staten Island Ferry for free and brings a medium longish lens. You're on a boat, so don't bring a camera that you feel you need a tripod for. The 1 train to South Ferry is the easiest way down there (be in the first 5 cars to exit at South Ferry). A cab will usually take longer with traffic.

There are a number of interesting galleries in Chelsea and you won't be too far from ICP. Check photo listings at www.villagevoice.com to plan it out in advance, so you can make the best use of your time in the city.

Oops - sorry David.

I did exchange PMs with the OP, BTW. Seems he's on one of those daytime "shopping tours" and arrives from Maryland at Macy's at Noon and departs again at 6PM.

I gave him the details for getting to the SI Ferry with the further suggestion that if he has time after the return trip to do some "street shooting" in Battery Park.

BTW: he'll be using his Nikon with a zoom (up to 200mm) so should catch some decent shots of the SOL on the outbound ferry ride.

Sorry for the name screw up - it was late and I was groggy.

 

[Dinesh]

Who's "David Goldberg"?

QUOTE]


Isn't he a moderator just like James Callow?

 

[David A. Goldfarb]

No problem, George.

 

[MenacingTourist]

FYI on the Flatiron

I have a client in the Flatiron and visit him about once a month. It's got some scaffolding on it right now but I hear it should be off in the fall. Just something to keep in mind when choosing your locations.

Even with all that junk on the building I took my little TLR and shot a roll of film the last time I was there. It was still fun.

Alan.

 

[Samuel Hotton]

More realistic plans for NYC trip

Ok guys, got the list together now. Thanks Alan for the update on the Flatiron work in progress, I'll do the best I can with what is presented. I've been told that there is another bus tour coming up to the city in October and it will be an overnighter. I can then approach the SOL shot in a bit more timely and organized fashion. a 50% chance of rain is predicted for this Saturday in NYC. No bother. I've laid out my area according to your wonderful suggestions to see and photograph from 34th street up to 51st and between 7th Ave and 3rd Ave and of course a walk down to the Flatiron at 23rd and 5th. Lots to see, lots to record, that should keep me busy for 5 hours. Not taking too much equipment, and am using a backpack for ease and security. Probabably use a Null series Leica with Pan F rated at EI 25, Super Ikonta with plus-x and a X-Pan with Fuji color. If between now and then I get sensible, I'll either take a modern Leica M with three lenses or the Nikon with three lenses. Depends on how I feel and how bad the weather turns. If it turns into a "Frog choker" with rain, I may just grab the Nikonos and some 400ASA. I'm staying flexable in order to have the most fun I can. For those that are curious, I use either a Spectra Combi II meter or a Luna Pro SBC. I usually travel with a old Leitz tiltall tripod. I'd love to bring it, HOWEVER after reading about tripod phobic guards and police, I'm not sure if the extra weight is worth it for my day of tourist style shooting. I know the quality of my images will suffer without it. I also know the Mayors office will approve a permit IF you can give them the time and itinerary of your locations. This I cannot provide, SO I'll skip the permit. might just take a Komperdell - Hiker walking stick / monopod combination. Any thoughts guys on taking or leaving behind the Tiltall tripod??
All the best,
Sam H

 

[copake_ham]

Ok guys, got the list together now. Thanks Alan for the update on the Flatiron work in progress, I'll do the best I can with what is presented. I've been told that there is another bus tour coming up to the city in October and it will be an overnighter. I can then approach the SOL shot in a bit more timely and organized fashion. a 50% chance of rain is predicted for this Saturday in NYC. No bother. I've laid out my area according to your wonderful suggestions to see and photograph from 34th street up to 51st and between 7th Ave and 3rd Ave and of course a walk down to the Flatiron at 23rd and 5th. Lots to see, lots to record, that should keep me busy for 5 hours. Not taking too much equipment, and am using a backpack for ease and security. Probabably use a Null series Leica with Pan F rated at EI 25, Super Ikonta with plus-x and a X-Pan with Fuji color. If between now and then I get sensible, I'll either take a modern Leica M with three lenses or the Nikon with three lenses. Depends on how I feel and how bad the weather turns. If it turns into a "Frog choker" with rain, I may just grab the Nikonos and some 400ASA. I'm staying flexable in order to have the most fun I can. For those that are curious, I use either a Spectra Combi II meter or a Luna Pro SBC. I usually travel with a old Leitz tiltall tripod. I'd love to bring it, HOWEVER after reading about tripod phobic guards and police, I'm not sure if the extra weight is worth it for my day of tourist style shooting. I know the quality of my images will suffer without it. I also know the Mayors office will approve a permit IF you can give them the time and itinerary of your locations. This I cannot provide, SO I'll skip the permit. might just take a Komperdell - Hiker walking stick / monopod combination. Any thoughts guys on taking or leaving behind the Tiltall tripod??
All the best,
Sam H

Sam,

A tripod per se shouldn't be a problem - so long as you're willing to put up with carrying it around. The other evening I saw a fellow shooting on 6th Avenue (er...Avenue of the Americas to non-locals) using one. No one bothered him at all even though he was using a D-200!

Use of a tripod in the subways or in say the main waiting room of Grand Central Station might cause some concern - but more for saftey concerns to passengers than anything else.

BTW, the only time you would need any kind of permit was if you were doing a commercial film shoot where you're stringing cables along the street and setting up big lighting systems etc. (they're doing a shoot just down the street from my office today - quite a set up).

Returning in the Fall is a great idea. October in NYC is one of the best months for good weather (sunny warm days, cool but not cold evenings). That will give you time to do the SOL - particularly since you may want to do the first ferry over in the AM - I believe it's the only group permitted to climb to the crown as they need to prevent overcrowding on the stairway. [Note: In all honesty, as a native New Yorker - I have never been to the SOL - that's for tourists! ]

Anyway, have a good time - hope the weather holds - but the Nikonos may be a good idea!

 

[Samuel Hotton]

Follow up from NYC bus trip

Thanks for all the great ideas and useful advice you provided to make a happy and fun trip for me.
We had mist and sprinkles for a part of the afternoon and gray skys for the AM. This was not a problem. I carried two M Leica bodies, one with Plus-x and the other with Tri-x, and three lenses, 35mm, 50mm and 135mm. I never needed the 50mm. I also brought the Super Ikonta 6x9 with Kodak 400 chromagenic film. Brought along a flat back 24mmx74mm panoramic camera with a 50mm lens. All fitted and carried well in my packback. I did take the Leitz Tiltall tripod.
We were dropped off at 34th & Broadway. I made some street shots of people, signs and buildings. 35mm lens was perfect, 50mm too long. Plus-x was fast enough EI 100 EV13.5
Walked down to Madison Square Park to shoot Flat Iron. In the park are some interesting stainless steel trees. Nice vertical composition with 35mm lens. Moving towards the street, a nice view of Flat Iron presented itself through the tree branches, covering/hiding scaffolding. I shot vertical with the 35mm for an overall shot and made a second nice shot of the top prow of the building, vertical with the 135mm. Lots of nice carvings and detail in moldings and statues. EI 100 EV 12.5 in park and EV13.5-14 of Flat Iron.
Walked up to Bryant park 6th and 42nd. Shot several images of Chrysler Building. I couldn't find "the shot". I tried, just couldn't make it work.
Off to Grand Central Terminal / "Station". Loads of people with 4x5 viewcameras up on the balconies, they were mostly students associated with ICP. All shooting type 55 P-roid. Boy howdy, that place is dark! NO PROBLEM with using tripod, WAS NOT hasseled. Time for Tri-x. EI 320 EV 7-8.5 . Used 35mm lens, made a useless (perhaps) but fun shot with the Ikonta 6x9. Made a few nice panoramics with the flatback camera all bubble leveled properly. I would have needed the 30mm on the X-Pan OR a Horizon swing lens with a 28mm to do it justice. It was not exciting enough of a shot to warrant a 161mm on a 8"x10" camera. Very Very flat lighting!
Had a wonderful lunch in the Oyster bar. Mussels to start, Monk fish and veggies for the main course, Whale tail pale ale from Nantucket to wash the lot down. About 25ish dollars for lunch. Metering the Oyster Bar it seems that EI 1600 @ EV 7 is required. This would equate to 1/30 @ f2.0 this would look quite nice on a 35mm Summicron wide open. Lots of fairy lights and vaulted ceilings.
Popped into St. Patricks cathedral. What a grand and beautiful building. I lit a candle for a lost and unfortunate friend and said a quick prayer of thanks for such a wonderfull day. Shot several handheld exposures with the 35mm lens. EI320 @ EV 7 Color would be stunning.
Walked up to Rockefeller building, it was getting darker and raining heavier, saw nothing that grabbed me. Took a left turn by Radio City, snapped a tourist shot of the big sign. Took another left down Avenue of the Americas. ICP was crowded, I did not want to leave my camera bag and I was getting a bit tired. It was time for me to head back to catch the bus home.
Lots of wild and wonderful views, sights , smells with all the street vendors and people in general.
I think I could make do with one camera with either a 125 or 400 ASA film (Depending on the quantity of light on the given day) with a 35mm focal length lens. If a person felt really good and was inspired, had some experience and a good eye they could fill a coffee table book with great images in one weekend. An amazing place, characters, compositions, lines, and colors abound.
Well I made it back to Macys on time, had some refreshing ice cream at Ben & Jerrys. The sky opened up and the rain came to wash the city. I made it home by midnight suprisingly not tired, very very satisfied and much inspired. A great trip, I think I will go again in October.
I hope these descriptions and numbers will help and inspire others in photographing this wonderful and fantastic city.
Thanks guys,
Sam H.

 

[copake_ham]

Sam,

Sounds as if you made the most of your time and more! Yes, NYC is a fascinating place whether one is a visitor or life-long resident. You certainly got a good taste - hope you come back for more!